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Footballer
September 2, 2006
5:09:28 PM
Entry ID: 924535 | Tackle football is played for youngsters in some countires as early as 7-9 years old and I know Austria has been that way for many years.. And I know that Germany has them playing at a young age even though that does not always mean you will be a better player because you play at a young age. |
Europe/Germany
September 1, 2006
8:11:51 PM
Entry ID: 923955 | Hi Ken.........
The league structures vary somewhat from country to country, but basically and in general, kids can begin to play football on a club level (which all of Europe is) at the age of 10 and only non contact football, or in other words, flag football. When they are 14, they can apply to play tackle footballl, only if they are body wise fit enough. Normal Tackle in Germany begin at the age of 15 and they can play tackle on a Junior level until they are 19. Then they advance to the Senior or adult teams. Some countries vary, like Austria, they have tackle football already at the age of 13 and have 2 groups: 13 - 16 and then 17 - 19. Which is the reason why the AUstrian football has really gotten better in the past few years.
In Europe, on a whole, there are only club teams. Universities or High Schools, do not participate in team sports. If a person would like to take up a sport, he must be a member of a club. Most clubs offer a variety of sports, Track & Field, basketball, volleyball, handball, gymnastics etc. Most American Football teams do not belong to a major all sports club, but founded their own club and focuses only on Football.
You really can not compare a NCAA I team to any team in Europe! Even though many teams in Europe have US import paid players, the crust of the team are Nationals. Non Nationals that come from non EC countries, must wear a "E" on their Helm and players that come from USA, Canada, Japan and Mexico, must wear a "A" on their helm. A's are players that steem from countries that play Football in a High School level at home. During a game you are only allowed to have a maximum of 2 A's on the filed at one time and 1 "E", or 2 "E" players and 1 "A", or 1 "E" player and 2 "A". Which means, on a whole, the "A" players balance each other out and bottom line is the team with the best Nationals, usually wins. Unless you have an outstanding American player in a key position, like QB, or like I had when I brought Tiger McNillion over from FSU.
Top teams in Europe, like Braunschweig Lions, Hamburg, Vienna or Milan can be compared to a NCAA III team. Mainly due to the practices times (they usually only practice 2 or 3 times a week) and most important Coaching staff. Then things like, video breakdowns of practices, field equipment etc. make a big difference. The athletes are here and with proper training, they could be much much better.
The system of league play in Europe varies from country to country since some countries do not have as many teams as Germany does. In Germany you have the following league breakdwon for the mens division:
GFL League (which is the 1st and 2nd Bundesliga)
1 Bundesliga
2 Bundesliga
Regional liga
States League
Verbands league
The so called new comer league
Now this varies also from state to state. Some states do not have as many teams as for example Bavaria. If you win your league, then you advance to the next highest. If you are the last placed team, you drop down a league. Exception is when you get to the GFL level, here the first place team first plays a playoff game to the last placed team in the league above them, the winner advances or stays in his league.
I don't know if this helped you, but if you need further information, please let me know.
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ken
September 1, 2006
7:55:01 PM
Entry ID: 923947 | I'm just forwarding you what they tell me.......a German repsonse is coming soon......The D3 scores are interesting to me though because I havent followed the outcome of those games for that far back but anyhow just heard about the scores from Menlo Park(Ca) and some school from Iowa vs an Italian team that comes to mind from recent years... Do you live in Europe?....Is this why you follow it so closely?.... As far as how 1st league teams in Europe compare to College level in USA... I would say Austria and Germany leagues and teams since the early 90's compare to high D3 and some lower to middle D2 US college level. That's pretty much what I said along too, about middle of the pack D2.....so we are on the same page there. |
footballer
US
September 1, 2006
3:58:57 PM
Entry ID: 923784 | Most teams in Europe have had feeder systems leagues for many years(I know this for fact) as far back as late 80's to early 90's. And young players played tackle football at that time as they do now as early as 7-8 years old in organized leagues. As far as how 1st league teams in Europe compare to College level in USA... I would say Austria and Germany leagues and teams since the early 90's compare to high D3 and some lower to middle D2 US college level. As a whole overall the Euro teams in 1st leagues throughout Europe are probably middle to high D3. That is my opinion having seen leagues and teams in Europe every year since 1992...It takes a heck of a player to dominate in a league such as the AFBO (Austria) or GFL(German) 1st leagues. Seen many stars from D2 or even D1 colleges not be much of a factor in those leagues.
Some Euro teams that have I know off hand that have beaten US college teams: Vienna Vikings over Millsaps College 40-28 in 1999. Vienna Vikings over Wabash College top ten in D3 that season 35-21 in 2003. They also beat a very good Team USA this year 34-27...Tyrolean Raiders over Centre College 34-14 in 1999. Braunschweig Lions over USA College all Stars 30-23 in 2000. Hamburg Blue Devils over St.Xavior Univ. Chicago 17-10 in 1995. Graz Giants over Albany State University 32-23 in 1991 (shows that the level even in 1991 was pretty high.) Giants have also beaten Team USA 49-22 in 2003 and 21-14 in 2005. |
Finland
September 1, 2006
3:26:38 PM
Entry ID: 923756 | Here is some clarity for readers about current situation with football feeder systems.My main focus is usually with 1st division teams so this should help explain to those that may be interested in the overall overseas football landscape.
What age can player play tackle football in Europe?
--- Finland, it is possible to play tackle from 10 yrs.
--- about 16-17 yr old players CAN play in mens team IF they have a permission from their parents AND they are physically fit to league they play in.
Now I am hearing that they can play as early as age 7 or 8.
-- TRUE, for example in Porvoon Butchers they have players as young as 9 yrs playing tackle. 7 or 8 is an exception
I also heard that they played flag football before then and this was part of the reason some may have been behind in fundamentals
--- we have a program for schools playing 5 on 5 NFL Flag in schools.
--- also adults, and old timers are starting flag
Do High School programs now play tackle?.....Do Colleges play tackle in Europe?
--- High Scools and Colleges have some school tournaments in Finland,but not real programmes as in US.
What is the football landscape like now for countries with players under 18 yrs old and players in College?
--- try sports in a school tournament and join a team youth programme
and if comparing overseas football in general, all leagues and teams would you classify it as similar to division 3 football?
--- in Finland 1st division, yes it is close match for the top 4 teams to Div III middle tier
and would you say that maybe the higher leagues like GFL or AFBO are similar to middle of the pack division 2 college?
--- without any real comparison, I would say Div III top teams, I can be wrong about it also.
Finland Team
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ken
September 1, 2006
2:02:02 PM
Entry ID: 923676 | well yes they have their Junior teams now , and again I am telling you what they have told me about how the football used to be and how their players couldnt play tackle until 18 yrs old but only flag football..... GFL has their junior teams and their is the Bundesliga and the third divison (regionale), Italy has the serie B & C...Finland has junior teams like Pori and Tampere and you factor in Spain, Czech, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark & Switzerland well it would have to be at least the same rating as indoor ball. Plus when you factor in that over the years Division 3 college programs have consistently defeated overseas teams and in the worst case scenario indoor football is no worse than division 3 football well then that's where you get the rating...what I think you're really asking me is this : Is the GFL 1st division or the AFBO rated the same as the lowest rated indoor league?....again my rating system is for player scouting reports not to rate a league. |
footballer
US
August 31, 2006
3:49:19 PM
Entry ID: 922939 | The feeder system of younger players has been around for 15 years or more in some countries. And young players play with older players or the 1st league for many years and that has to help them. Plus a lot of these teams have had American coaches since the mid to late 80's. That is what I have seen with most 1st teams in Europe. |
footballer
US
August 31, 2006
3:41:34 PM
Entry ID: 922930 | Basically every 1st league team in Europe has to have a feeder system of younger players playing tackle football or they are not allowed in the 1st league. They have several age groups starting with mini level which is 7-8 year olds. Junior level teams are like HS levels here in US as far as age. So I guess I can't say I see what your saying on the football not starting for young players. Fact is they do play at young ages tackle football and work there way up to the top league teams if they are good enough much like here in US. I understand what you are saying on the rating players BUT I feel that the level of players such as the ones you listed are more the norm that go to 1st league teams in Europe and should mean a higher rating and it is outdoor football. Good to discuss with you and it really isn't a real big deal. |
Ken
August 31, 2006
12:28:36 AM
Entry ID: 922480 | well yeah it would be altered if I were just rating leagues but again this a rating system for player scouting reports not leagues. Justin Burks played for ASU and was in the Chargers camp last year. He is playing for Dresden this year. I personally placed Chris Dapolito from Duke with a team in Finland last year and with the Argonautes in France this year. NFL Draft Scout had him listed as the #61 QB Prospect in the 2005 Draft. I also placed QB Davon Vinson from NW La, he was rated #59 QB this year by Draft Scout. RB Dewhitt Betterson (Troy St) was in the Chicago Bears mini camp in 2005 . I placed him with the Bergamo Lions this year. LB Todd McCullough was rated the #34 ILB by Draft Scout in 2006. I also placed him with Bergamo. QB Donald Allen (La Tech) was the #82 rated QB from the 2006 NFL Draft class according to NFL Draft Scout. He is in Finland through my service. I think this is a better way to explain the ratings system to you. Certainly none of those players would I grade as a 3 or even a 4 but for whatever reasons they didnt get signed by the NFL or CFL and they were all available and wanted to play ball and stay in game playing shape either for another NFL or CFL shot or just for the fact they love football and wanted to play while they are young enough and still can. Hopefully this better explains the grading to you. good chatting with you though. Also, some countries didnt let their players play tackle until they were 18 yrs old. Alot of them just played flag football until then. They have just recently begun getting the sport put in at the HS levels and this was a big part of the problem ; players werent learning proper fundamentals until they were older and that has alot to do with my rating system as well. The teams are just not 2 and 3 deep like they are here in U.S colleges. The leagues/teams recognize this and most of what I say comes from them telling me this, not myself coming to a conclusion on my own. |
Footballer
Usa
August 30, 2006
3:45:30 PM
Entry ID: 922043 | Just talking 1st leagues of Europe where most of the better players going to Europe play. To me the player ratings would be rated higher for Europe 1st leagues than the indoor leagues if all are included. It really isn't that big a deal but thats my opinion. Also Austrian league top 4 teams played the top four of German league and it was 5-0 Austrian teams (one played each other twice). I agree though both are good leagues with top American imports and imports from other countries around Europe many that have NFLE or college experience in US. Remember most European players have been playing football since the were 7 years old just like US players they begin at a young age. |
Ken
August 24, 2006
5:30:29 PM
Entry ID: 917320 | Austria may be best as far as top teams but overall Germany has more depth in regards to good teams but its debatable either way. I was just using Germany 1st division as an example because that's what I was asked about.....in regards to why use all of the overseas leagues grouped together , well , because I will handle player placement for any of the overseas leagues if a player understands the differences in caliber of play and still wants to go...same with lower level indoor, we still would place certain players with those teams on an individual basis as long as they knew what they were getting into. Again the difference is so minimal and its not a straight across the board rating. there are exceptions to every rating but again the biggest thing to keep in mind is that this is not a rating system for the leagues/teams it is a rating system to grade players which then correlates to a grade for a suitable league for their abilities but players may receive NFL grades and still be cut and end up playing in the AFBO or GFL1......you know even If all the indoor leagues and overseas leagues were included in my ratings I dont think I would change those rankings at all.They are basically even, with the indoor leagues getting the slight nod because there are more college experienced players in the states.......overseas there are usually only 2-4 Americans per team and they do not have the depth of players like we do here in the states.for the overseas players it is amateur football for the majority of them and they have to pay to play much like with semi pro here in the states....certainly there are euro players better than players here in the states as some play NFLE but overall I think my ratings are quite accurate..... |
Footballer
USA
August 24, 2006
3:20:42 PM
Entry ID: 917203 | Understand why the ranking but why not count all the indoor leagues if you are counting the 2nd leagues of Europe for the average? Not a big deal but to me the overall level of american import players especially the 1st leagues in Europe are higher quality players than the indoor leagues overall. By the way the best league in Europe is the Austrian League. Proof: This year the best Austrian teams beat the beat German teams 5 out of 5 head to head. |
Ken
August 23, 2006
11:44:28 PM
Entry ID: 916682 | I was aksed to elaborate a bit on my scouting report grading system and why indoor players would grade out higher than overseas football...first of all the grading is so slightly different there really is no reason to debate it but the reason is because when we work with teams at the indoor level we are talking about the well run teams, teams in AF2 & UIF. we dont deal with teams that throw together teams built on career semi pro players and that is no offense to those that love the game and have played at the semi pro level for a long time it is just not our market... secondly the overseas grade is based on the overall teams that play there and not just the top teams but the 2nd division teams as well and when that is taken into consideration the play grades out to low level D3 football, the top teams in Germany would grade out to middle of the pack D2 football.....those are the facts and again the difference is so slight it really is a topic not worth discussing. Keep in mind the grading system is designed not to grade the league but to grade the player ....certainly some players will grade higher than an overseas league team but may have to go overseas to stay in game playing shape........some may play indoor ball to learn the AFL1 game and develop at another position.....
Indoor Football Scouting Bureau Player Database
InterNATIONAL FOOTBALL SCOUTING Grading
1st Round-Special Player- 8.50-9.00
1st Round-Top Player- 8.00-8.49
2nd/3rd Round Starter 7.00-7.90
4th/5th Round Backup NFL Player- 6.00-6.90
6th/7th Round Fringe Player- 5.00-5.90
Undrafted Free-Agent-CFL/AFL-4.00-4.90
Undrafted Free-Agent-Indoor-3.50-3.90
Undrafted Free-Agent-Overseas-3.00-3.49
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Euro highest paid
April 17, 2006
3:26:41 PM
Entry ID: 820368 | Adding to you list that would be among the highest paid are: Tyrone Rush, Rod Lowe, Todd Hendricks, Brad Strohm, Anthony Thompson, Jon Horton, Lance Gustafson, Cameron Frickey, Esterus Crayton, Matt Riazzi. These are among the best players ever to play in Europe and also some are among the highest paid ever. Rush, Hendricks,Crayton, Horton made at least $2000 per month or more for at least one or more seasons plus all the expenses paid. I know there are others whom might have been around that pay and that could be considered for the list. |
footballer
April 17, 2006
2:55:49 PM
Entry ID: 820353 | The pay in Europe is paid in cash and is(tax free) which makes it much better than it may seem. |
Uffe
Hässleholm
March 1, 2006
1:56:29 PM
Entry ID: 782790 | Hi.
I`m a coach/player in a brand new team in Hässleholm, Sweden. I saw the posts in the guestbook and i have to say that i agree with Mr Robinson about the salary. The normal pay here in Sweden is about 500-1000 Euro/month. I also think that it is a good idea to not have to big dreams about getting rich while playing in Europe. First of all its a adventure for the rest of your life (like me when i played in the USA) As mr Robinson says, you will meet a lot of people and friends, see new cultures and you will se the lovly Sweden.
Hope to se some of you here in Sweden in the next years.
Best Regards
Uffe Andersson
Hässleholm Hurricanes |
ken
January 29, 2006
8:40:33 PM
Entry ID: 761974 | Sure anything is possible, and perhaps I downplay it a bit because I believe it is better to do that then to have these players go over and be disappointed. That is when there are usually problems with the players. This way it will be more than what they expected rather than it being less than what they expected.I basically dont want an NAIA or other small college kid who is not getting alot of exposure here in the states going over thinking he will play there in a European 2nd division League and be scouted by NFLE scouts like some agents or placement services may tell them....And that is not a knock on NAIA kids , as I think historically they have had more players in NFL then even D2 but I needed to use one of the smaller school divisions as an example.... Do you coach overseas now ?...It is better to be upfront with these players and maybe even down play it a bit so they are not disappointed. Any NFL players that have gone over were mostly players that had just gotten a sniff from the NFL in a training camp or something like that and their have been some but it shouldnt be thought of as alot...... you should drop me an email so we can talk more about this rather than having it posted on the guestbook......Here are the TOP 10 Paid Players of All Time in Europe:
#1 Estrus Crayton
#2 Xavier Crawford
#3 Tony Rice
#4 Brett Salisbury
#5 Tom Young
#6 Ron Lopez
#7 Petrus Pankki
#8 Sammi Alalammpi
#9 Damon Huard
#10 Jeff Loot
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Euro leagues
January 29, 2006
4:50:38 PM
Entry ID: 761849 | I understand. There have been many players who actually played in the NFL who have played in leagues in Europe.
Also there have been some who got signed or had tryouts with NFL and a few who did play ing NFLE and CFL after playing in Europe. THAT IS NOT NORMAL BUT IT HAS HAPPENED. So players should not think that they could not still get a shot at NFL if they play in Europe league.
I agree with you that players should enjoy the great oppurtunity they have while it is there and be the best player they can in Europe and not expect to use it to get to NFL.
Your site looks good. |
ken
January 29, 2006
3:58:59 PM
Entry ID: 761824 | Thanks Euro Leagues for the info......I just didnt want players getting grand ideas or thinking I was misleading them or something so thats why I wanted to specify & clarify a bit......it is a great opportunity no doubt to have alot of fun , make new friends, see a country you might have ever had a chance to see if not for football, help coach the team as well and get that on a players resume too........I just dont want players thinking it is a stepping stone to NFL, NFL Europe or CFL......or that they can make alot of money ......please stay in touch ....I didnt get your email correct but you have mine if you'd like to drop me a note......anytime......enjoy the site....I tried to put up alot of content all on one site so it would appeal to coaches, players, fans, player agents, scouts, etc., on all levels of football |
Euro leagues
January 29, 2006
3:21:32 PM
Entry ID: 761806 | Agreed it is not the average Salary but it does happen or has with proven players in Europe. Eithier way it is a heck of a opportunity. |
Ken
AZ
January 29, 2006
2:20:36 AM
Entry ID: 761632 | well you know those salaries are not the norm and not for the average player......Maybe a big name college player like an Estrus Crayton from USC might have approached that in the past but it is not happening anymore....Teams lost money and actually Italy pays the most........In Austria , Cineplexx may pay the most but again it would not be in the neighborhood of $3000, not even $2000....Those were in days past but not today and certainly not in Germany's current economy......the salaries range from $500Euro/mo to $1500 Euro/mo ......an NFL camp cut skill position player could get $2000 Euro/mo -$2500Euro/mo but not a small school player without an NFL background..... |
Euro football leagues
Wien
January 29, 2006
1:24:25 AM
Entry ID: 761625 | Just wanted to mention that I know players who have earned salaries of $3000 USD per month( paid in cash)in past years. Plus RT airflight, insurance, Housing, cell, car etc. Germany and Austria have paid best and Italy is pretty good as well. Germany and Austria play the best football probably low D2 to higher D2 with Imported Americans etc. Austria used to have an unlimited American rule (which made for a great league) but with teams having so many americans the costs got to big to handle and now they have went to a stricter rule on the number of imported Americans.
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WOE-LIFE.COM
January 12, 2006
2:15:08 PM
Entry ID: 749989 | KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK I.F.S. YOUR SAVING LIVES! FEEL FREE TO CONTACT WOE-LIFE.COM ANY TIME YOU NEED OR WANT TO SAVE MONEY. AS YOU KNOW FROM ALL TRAVEL ACCOMMODATIONS TO GEAR FOR ALL SPORTS.
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