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TOPIC: Flag issue. |
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| Kash
June 5, 2016
8:52:10 PM
Entry #: 4199302
| There was another flag issue at the field today and I want to state some facts before any weakness and proganda starts to develop .
1. On a week to week basis , I troll sidelines and see mishaps and unfair advantAges players , referees and teams are doing. When I see these things each week almost every team has benefited from me the commssioner , expressing how they need to challenge certain , plays, rulings, etc etc. all teams have had my help from this. Some teams listen some teams don't. The point of this fact is. I am the commssioner and try to keep the game fair play so yes I can inform teams how to handle being "disadvantaged"
2. Today I the commssioner was not the one who noticed Rick Paddila cheating with his flags. I was informed by players, fans. Etc etc...the Bucs were informed and then I informed the Bucs how to handle it. The Bucs cried to the referee for consecutive plays to handle it and they did not.
Now I can say with my own eyes , I saw Rick Padilla gain chUnks of yards after chunks of yards for 3 or 4 plays almost consecutively, While rick came out the huddle the prior to each play. I saw with my own eyes Rick deliberately lower his belt and loosen his belt to gain an advantage. Each play he continually did this akward move and with the game being in a key moment, this in my own eyes was deliberately cheating to win the game. As he Gaines massive yards and got out of near impossible situations .
Quick history Rick has been known and has been warned before by the CFFL in prior seasons about his illegal flag use with lowering and loosening belts to gain yards . So this is not "new for him"
3. I will reiterate that if their are disfavantages in the game I will inform teams how to handle it be it the challenge. There is nothing wrong with informing teams the rules.
In final. With 100% certainty this is what happened and what we saw (me fans) . And teams or players cannot only accept rules regulations only when they effect others. The rules and regulations are for everyone. Although the I can help teams call challenges with rules rosters, this league polices itself 99% of the time. And today was no different . And once again... If did see this "first" I would have informed the Bucs either way to handle it.
Players you all need to stop trying to gain an advantage with the flags, it takes away from the game. And really riduclous.
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| Nick 42
June 5, 2016
9:43:37 PM
Entry #: 4199315
| Kash, this is what the official rulebook states.
PROTEST
Protests cannot be made against an official's judgment call. Interpretation of the rule(s) and the application of the rule(s) may be protested regarding the game. All matters pertaining to player eligibility may be protested before or after a contest.
You repeatedly called this a judgement call. If the ref did not judge the flags to be illegal prior to the play, how could a protest be made? Especially considering the flag belt could have been adjusted during the play.
I understand this isn't going to change the outcome of the game but going forward the ref needs to judge an unfair flag advantage prior to the play, as happened at the end of the same game where a ref asked a Buc player to fix his flags.
Again, this is a judgement play, which can not be protested
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June 5, 2016
11:16:10 PM
Entry #: 4199327
| Rick Padilla has been playing for this league for many years and all of a sudden you want to bring this issue up now on the message board. You the commissioner "fan" said to many other teams that you wanted the Cowboys to lose. So, this was your opportunity to let the bucs know.
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| 21
June 6, 2016
9:33:13 AM
Entry #: 4199348
| Padilla was not touched for 10+ yards down the field on every one of those runs, its had NOTHING to do with people missing his flag. The play challenged wasn't even challenged until after another play had been run because the play was challenged after Padilla had run about 20 yards down field untouched and was shoved out of bounds (penalty was called for not going for flag on D). They didn't argue that play, they challenged the play before which 1. Cant even be done because another play had been run 2. can't complain of belt being low after a play because it could be adjusted while running and having people pull at it and pull it down. I've had to readjust my belt and fix it after every play so to complain after the fact when refs deemed the flag ok before the play makes no sense. Nick states it best that judgement calls can't even be protested, which is exactly what this was being called, a judgment call
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| Rob
June 6, 2016
9:50:40 AM
Entry #: 4199352
| This is a lame excuse for "the commissioner" to try and avoid the fact the he told several people that he didn't want us to win the game. He tried to tell us that we would lose by 3 scores and would quit. Once he realized he was gonna look like a fool he decided to intervene at a key moment in the game. We were about to go up 2 scores with less than 4 minutes to go in the game and his ass walks on the field to challenge a "flag issue"?!? It's been well documented how he likes to manipulate the rules when he sees fit and that's RIDICULOUS! Buc da world told us that it was him who told them to challenge. Loser
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| Kash
June 6, 2016
10:07:05 AM
Entry #: 4199354
| Maybe your new to this. But i want teams to lose every week and tell the teams lol. In actuality the Cowboys owner has been told for many weeks in our group text I want his team to lose. So have the Bulldogs been told this, the Vikings, the Bears etc etc lol..
The Cowboys owner knows this and is creating a false culture with his team. As if this is something new. I would guess he screen Shotted some comments in out owners group chat to create a false "hate" of a reason to cheat a team
Each team owner can come verify on a week to week basis I in our chats want teams to win and lose and directly tell the teams this lol. But of course this certain owner is going to make it seems as it is just the Cowboys. Even the young Gunz will tell you how I designed schedules for them to lose , the steelers. Etc etc there is no secret to this and the Cowboys owner continue to make false propaganda. Only 2 weeks until this leader of the Cowboys is removed . Lol
If one owner can confirm this even though it's pretty evident I do this yearly and weekly
It's entertainment when it's NOT the Cowboys it's "sabotage" when it is lol
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| Kash
June 6, 2016
10:27:23 AM
Entry #: 4199359
| How is flag tampering is its own animal and or equipment. Judgment calls Are things like pass interference, holding , etc etc
If flag tampering were a judgement call, no flags could ever be challenged As its a "judgement" by CFFL officials if they are not correct .
The referee was asked if another play happened and they said NO. But if the Cowboys want to say that DiD not happen that's fine. But that's the culture your team has created
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| kash
June 6, 2016
11:11:58 AM
Entry #: 4199367
| One last thing to rob... Were you there last week , when I was on the Cowboys sideline helping them beat the Bulldogs, tellling the Cowboys to challenge certain plays to gain an advantage .becuase I wanted the Bulldogs to lose lol. Further proof no one like it when it's THEM , and nothing has changed since the beginning of the CFFL
Was it ok then ? I'm Honesty asking...was I trying to sabotage the Cowboys vs the Bulldogs ? Was me helping the Cowboys all to fulfill some "entertainment" prophecy That the Cowboys won't win or make the playoffs? did I predict the Cowboys to win?.... Answer slowly and don't hurt your head when that sinks in with your conspiracy theories. You're player tried to defraud the game with his flags that's a fact and not an opinion. No matter who did or did not tell a team or referees.
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| 21
June 6, 2016
11:40:16 AM
Entry #: 4199370
| Yeah you really helped us beat the Bulldogs hahaha what "help" did you give us...ok...NONE. And yeah you want teams to win/lose every week and "set up schedules" but implementing rules/challenges during a game at a time when you know you're "prediction" is gonna be wrong is different then setting up a tough schedule before the season etc. And this was NOT flag tampering or belt tampering by any stretch of the imagination. This was an illusion of a challenge. The refs came over after the challenge. They looked at Padilla belt and said its basically fine, could be pulled up a little perhaps. He pulls up belt literally maybe an inch higher. Mind you this is AFTER the play where he was having his belt tugged at and ran 20 yards downfield, yes the belt could slide during a play but it was in no way, shape, or form anywhere near a "tampered" belt. It was a ridiculous situation that shouldn't even be challenged. Later in the game, the Bucs lost a challenge and were not assessed the 15 yard penalty for losing the challenge which would have put us within 5 yards of endzone with about 2-3 plays left in the game. The whole thing is a scam
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| Kash
June 6, 2016
12:00:06 PM
Entry #: 4199374
| Scam no. There are 3 weak individuals on the Cowboys surrounded by 22 ok and strong men. You sir to show how forward I am are one of them. Along with your buddy and your leader .
I don't need to hide behind any mischief or falseness to a 5-5 non marketable team who's last season is this season to prove a point lol you, your buddy and your leader are delusion eyes. I have bigger fish to fry and don't like to "cheat " to win (like we saw your inning back do and has done in the past. Your team is just not that important , get over yourself . I wouldn't sacrifice the 22 other people on the Cowboys to kill 3 weak ones by cheating. It's just not in my charcter.
Again I was told what your player was doing. We then watched the player deliberately loosen his belt and then continue to put them below his waist. The Bucs informed the refs and the referees did not listen, while said player gained chunks of yards. I then informed the Bucs the only way they can handle it if the ref is not listening is to pick up the ball.
The point YOU are missing s that the player tried to defraud the game . And we saw this as he did it and his flags twirled everywhere during movemmet and contact and were harder to pull off.
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June 6, 2016
12:05:37 PM
Entry #: 4199375
| Snatch I mean kash it has been said since the beginning and you are the only one that listens to yourself talk. Players just want to play football. This league has the most talent in the United States and we all know it. If you focused more on making the game better your league would be better. You are like all the NFL commissioner who just wants the spot light on himself. The NFL commissioner could also say to all the players if you don't like it go play somewhere else. But when there is no where else to play and it's shitty league or no league than that's why people play in your league. I have played in multiple leagues with no fines and no challenges and no suspensions and those leagues are a lot more fun and there is no problems. You cause the drama and then fine people for it. Don't ruin the game of football for the people who love it. Just run the league and watch the games. Don't need to here your long rebuttal either. Not looking for a response at all just stating facts from many people over the years if there was somewhere else to play all the teams would go.
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June 6, 2016
12:09:23 PM
Entry #: 4199377
| ^^^one in branford one in enfield haha go for it man
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| kash
June 6, 2016
12:19:04 PM
Entry #: 4199378
| How do you think we got here? Through sacrifice, losses and hard work . Let me explain I have
1. Let top teams leave season after season
2. Quit running the league 2 falls
3. Raised prices (highest price league)
4 . Moved the location of he league
5. I have not changed one bit since the beginning
There is no way in hell I will ever run a league like "everyoneelse". My ambition and standards are too high to lower my standards to hold the balls of lower standard individuals. There's other leagues with lower standards and hence lower quality. I will never do something and not do it he best I can or better than the rest . Running a league and lowering standards to make a certain group happy will never happen. That is the day I will quit running the league and have already done so TWice. But yet we are here
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| Nick 42
June 6, 2016
12:31:35 PM
Entry #: 4199380
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Rule 1.
Each eligible offensive player and any player wishing to posses and advance the ball must wear a standard sonic” flag belt with two (2) sonic flags (14in min) inserted properly not altered in any way with the flag belt properly tightened to prevent the belt from turning or swiveling and belt and both flags clearly visible. Non “sonic” flags (mushroom flags) and flag belts are not permissible.
A flag belt being properly tightened is a judgement call. Just as contact between a WR and CB for pass interference is a judgement call.
Judgement calls are not allowed to be protested. Specifically, in this case, the play impacted the tightness of the belt which would have influenced the judgement.
Again, the only reason I bring this up is for future considerations. The referees will have to make that judgement prior or during the play and throw the flag. This rule shouldn't and by rule can't be protested by another team.
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| Nick 42
June 6, 2016
12:36:40 PM
Entry #: 4199382
| Rule 1.
Each eligible offensive player and any player wishing to posses and advance the ball must wear a standard sonic” flag belt with two (2) sonic flags (14in min) inserted properly not altered in any way with the flag belt properly tightened to prevent the belt from turning or swiveling and belt and both flags clearly visible. Non “sonic” flags (mushroom flags) and flag belts are not permissible.
Parts of the rule that aren't judgement calls:
-Need to have 2 flags
-They need to be Sonic flags
-They need to be 14 inches long
Parts of the rule that are judgement calls:
-Proper tightening
-Flags being clearly visible.
These are judgement calls because there is some need for interpretation. What is properly tight is different depending on the person. Some people think skinny jeans are properly tight while others sag their pants. Same thing can go with flags.
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June 6, 2016
12:39:27 PM
Entry #: 4199383
| A judgement call is a "judgement call" . The officials judgment of a flag is a differnt animal and is not a "call" nick . I'm not sure what you are saying
Judgment call
Pass interference , holding , flag guarding...
Challenging of a flag is not a call.
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| Nick 42
June 6, 2016
12:47:08 PM
Entry #: 4199385
| Damn bro you really are making me use all my teaching strategies. Let's start with the definition of judgement call.
Judgment Call: a subjective decision, ruling, or opinion. (Merriam-Webster)
In simple terms all that means is a decision based on an opinion.
Ok now that we've done that let's apply that definition to the issue at hand. Is the "properly tightening of a belt" a subjective decision? Yes it is because people have different opinions on what is tight and what isn't.
Unless you write into the rules that belts need to be no looser than an inch it will be a judgement call.
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| Kash
June 6, 2016
12:51:47 PM
Entry #: 4199386
| Which section is the judgment call in I can't find it lol where your wrote about judgment calls in the previous post.
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| Nick 42
June 6, 2016
12:56:36 PM
Entry #: 4199387
| And lets bring it back to the original, and lasting point. Because the tightening of a flag is a judgement call it can not be protested. Buc Da World did not have the right, after a play, to protest that call. In the future, that will need to be flagged by the refs during or after a play. It can not be revisited after the ball has been spotted through a protest.
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June 6, 2016
1:06:15 PM
Entry #: 4199388
| Nick I looked again and there's nothing in the rule book that states what you are saying. And you just added it to you post but it's not there. The only thing that is fact is that the rule states the belts need to be properly worn . And I also found this rule...
Rule 5. Illegal equipment specified and not specified may be measured and/or inspected by CFFL Staff or Officials for the said equipment to be permissible.
these are rules be challenged and not judgment calls. If that's the case players can just keep running around with illegal flags and no one would be able to stop them from doing it.
So the Chiefs challenged the rule as a player was doing this.
The referees confirmed it happen and logically the opsoing team should not suffer for "cheating" . This is not a judgment call but challenging someone's flags .
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| kash
June 6, 2016
1:12:31 PM
Entry #: 4199390
| ^^^that was me above
But in essence rule 5 being challenged by a team allows the CFFL to check flags . And this "judgment " call theory is laid to rest as rule 5 can be the challenge too inspect equipment.
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| Nick 42
June 6, 2016
1:13:55 PM
Entry #: 4199391
| Got it Commish! Don't want to turn this into a Deflategate.
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June 6, 2016
1:16:52 PM
Entry #: 4199392
| Nick you know I've always respected your challenges and thoughts . They come with fire and logic lol . (Unlike illogical others lol)and you honestly put me to work today. As I saw your point of view and had to be sure that a loophole wasn't there. I do believe next season I'll add a precise rule . But rule 5 allows inspection of equipment .
But I definitely respect what you've done here today .
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| kash
June 6, 2016
5:14:16 PM
Entry #: 4199415
| I just checked with the other leagues commissioner Chris Severino and he COnFIrMED that players flags are challengeable. He's checking now if there even has to be a challenge , and if the staff or league can just stop games and check flags if there is suspicion of tampering with the game .
As stated in the rule book it looks to be at the discretion of the league to check flags whenever there is suspicion. A challenge doesn't even have to happen. A challenge is just a way to get the leagues or reds attention to address it. If not noticed.
Our rule book is based on McCfu/usft l which chris has much longer experience with than I have . And this is what he confirmed .
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| kash
June 6, 2016
5:58:50 PM
Entry #: 4199419
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| kash
June 6, 2016
6:00:16 PM
Entry #: 4199421
| Anymore questions #caseclosed
-"the salty scam artist"
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