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TOPIC: Forfeit Rules?!?!?!?!?!? |
| Bulls #45
July 22, 2007
1:38:12 AM
Entry #: 2274917
| WTF? The Chief's tell us on Friday that they can't field a team Saturday and the game gets rescheduled? That certainly sounds like a forfeit in my book. What's the deal? The game had been on the schedule all year, it's not like it was a make-up game or anything along those lines. Hell, we wanted to go to the Show-Me games this weekend, but we didn't so we could play the game that was scheduled. Then at the last minute we're told they aren't gonna have enough guys and we're gonna reschedule? Reschedule? What is that? We were supposed to play, they didn't have enough guys. According to the rules. Thats a forfeit. It's happened a bunch of times this year.
So what's the deal? We got fucked out of a weekend of playing ball and we don't get the forfeit like it says in the rules we should?
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| LongHaired
July 22, 2007
10:48:36 AM
Entry #: 2275088
| Nothing like a post at 2am.
Solid work here.
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| Head Bull
July 22, 2007
6:01:44 PM
Entry #: 2275490
| The problem is that the Commissioner is not making an unbiased decision here. He was tied at 10 wins and 8 losses with us (Bulls) going into this weekend. If it's a forfeit, then we are ahead of them by a game. It really has more to do with the standings of the Red Sox and Bulls rather than the Chiefs right now.
Brings back a reminder of May, when we had a scheduled game against the Red Sox and it was called a rainout at 4 PM on Friday when the game was to be played at 12:30 PM on Saturday. The field was playable by the way.
Not saying the Commish is doing anything wrong, but in a situation like his, even the appearance of bias raises eyebrows.
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| Bulls #45
July 22, 2007
8:11:04 PM
Entry #: 2275667
| It blows my mind that this is currently listed as a reschedule. We're 11-8. End of story.
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| gcchief44
July 22, 2007
9:36:44 PM
Entry #: 2275805
| Bull 45 you need to get you facts straight before runnig your mouth. There have been a few games rescheduled this year. Before I asked for a reschedule I told Archie I would forfeit and pay both umpires. Archie called me back after talking to Alan and Alan said he would play us not take a forfeit . As far as the Show me Games you should have attended the league meeting before the season and asked for that weekend off. Other teams do , we ask off for Memorial Day. If you want next time I will wait until game time and forfeit and Fuck up Your Sat. I was trying to do what was right by getting the game called on Fri. so eveyone could make other plans. Archie's decision had nothing to do with standings this is not the first rescheduled game this season. He was just doing for the Chiefs what he has done for a few other teams this season. Maybe when you have played and managed a team for 14 seasons in this league you will understand .
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| Bulls #45
July 22, 2007
10:46:56 PM
Entry #: 2275948
| With all due respect, Alan handed over the management of our team to me about 5 games into this season. Technically, whether to forfeit or not was not his decision - it was mine. As soon as I told him I wished to take the forfeit, he called Archie and told him we wanted the forfeit. That was Saturday morning. Then Saturday night I hear back from Al and he tells me Archie said we blew our chance to take the forfeit.
Also, when I asked Archie if we could reschedule a game earlier in the year if it were to conflict with our Forrest Park League, he told me "my schedule is ALWAYS right" and he would not reschedule a game if there was a conflict.
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| gcchief44
July 23, 2007
6:36:50 AM
Entry #: 2276118
| I was told Fri night that Alan said the Bulls would rather play us than take the forfeit .
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| Head Bull
July 23, 2007
8:10:03 AM
Entry #: 2276225
| This has more to do with the Red Sox (Archie) than anyone else. He seems to pick, choose, and manipulate to fit his needs.
First of all, we didn't leave it from our conversation Friday night that it was definitive whether or not the game would be rescheduled or a forfeit. It was going to be checked into. The main reason for the call was to let me know so our players would be contacted. I do not think the morning of Saturday is too late to decide to take a forfeit. This is well before the game is to be played, given the circumstances.
I told Archie around 8-9 AM that we wanted to take the forfeit. He left me a message around 10 PM saying that he would not do that, that you had been called. In the past, he would not change schedules for our team, even way in advance. His schedule is the right one, no if, ands, or buts.
Archie called me earlier this year and wanted to change a game time from 10 AM to 3 PM for his team against us a few days before the game. I told him that should be OK, so I called my players, then he decides to keep it at 10 AM, thus me having to call my players again. He was "rewinding the reel" in this instance since it met his needs. He said he would not let us take the forfeit because he didn't want to "rewind the wheel".
He said that I decided to take a forfeit after consulting my players. What is wrong with that? Lincoln can attest that I called him and told him that it would be a forfeit or a reschedule at 5:45 PM. Nothing was set as to which it would be.
Now Archie has rescheduled the game, and now we have 5 games scheduled in 7 days! Oh, and Archie will say it is "set in stone." That is the reschedule date, so tough.
Our team gets the shaft a lot of times. What is with the uneven home and away schedule? We have 11 home games and 16 away. All games with the A's are away for us. Archie would not correct this, but said that all games against him, we could have as home games, which he did not live up to, as he was home team the first time we played them. Maybe he forgot?
I have no problems with the Chiefs. They are the ones that did the right thing and followed the procedure. It has all to do with the appearance of manipulation and taking advantage of power.
As far as the SHOWME Games, we thought about taking a team in June, but looked at our schedule and had a game scheduled on Saturday with Chiefs, which was the only game that we had all weekend. Given our track record with Archie, we new "his schedule is right". That is why we didn't go to the SHOWME games.
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| Ebay
July 23, 2007
11:00:05 PM
Entry #: 2278233
| waaahhh... there's no cryin' in baseball. play ball. As I recall this isn't the first time there was a questionable decision made by the powers.... don't blame Gurk or the Chiefs.
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| Bulls #45
July 23, 2007
11:08:52 PM
Entry #: 2278245
| We're gonna play ball. We're not blaming Gurk and the Chiefs, they did nothing wrong - in fact, they did everything right... Hell, I'm not even sure why Gurk's in here.
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| Renegabe
July 24, 2007
12:55:28 AM
Entry #: 2278375
| First of all, 45, taking the forfeit is about the gayest thing you can do. You owe it to your team, the other team, and the rest of the league to play your fcking games. Who cares if you have 5 games in 7 days? Everybody has done it before so it's not just you. But to say you'd rather take a cheap, pussy way out forfeit win shows us all exactly what you are made of, which isnt much. Seriously, you have to take a forfeit against the Chiefs in order to win? Sorry Chiefs, no disrespect but if you can't beat a team on the field, any team, you dont deserve the win. Is your record that important to you? Everybody makes the playoffs, even you, so what is the big deal. You think it's gonna (ever) get you a bye in this league? Please, dont waste too much time thinking about this question.
"Alan handed over the management of our team to me about 5 games into this season."
Apparently not from the looks of it. My advice to you would be to hand the team back over to Alan, as he tried to do the noble thing and get the game played.
As far as the show me games, request it off at the meeting like the Gators and A's did, and there won't be any problem. In the meantime, be glad your team saved the 300 bucks.
Take the forfeit. What a bitch.
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| Renegabe
July 24, 2007
12:57:04 AM
Entry #: 2278376
| How did the Gators and A's do at the show me games by the way??
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| Bulls #45
July 24, 2007
1:27:36 AM
Entry #: 2278401
| Coward. Say that to my face. Bitch.
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| Gator25
July 24, 2007
11:29:56 AM
Entry #: 2279024
| The Gators ended up not going to show me games this year, and I have no idea how the A's finished.
Jeremy, I'll say it to your face, if this message board counts as to your face. If not, I'll tell you tonight.
Taking the forfeit IS pretty lame. 2 weekends ago, I was struggling for players for our game against the Cardinals, and I knew it the Monday before. But, I didnt call Archie and try to get the game rescheduled like I certainly could have. It happened to us a couple weeks ago with Johnnies. They didnt have enough, Lam called me and asked if we wanted to resched or take the forfeit. I opted for the reschedule, and would do it again any day. I, and my team, would much rather play the game and lose than win by forfeit as we proved against the Cardinals. I brought out 2 "extras" and 1 of which looked like he never played even a game of softball in his life. We lost, but at least we played the game.
As far as the home games go, yeah, it would probably be best to have it even, but I offered to give you a home game against us and you guys turned it down. Archie also told you guys to call him and he would fix it. Did you? For what it's worth, please schedule us all away games next season so I can get to my post-game beer 20 minutes quicker without having to rake the field.
I'm not going to say that you should give the team back to Alan, but I do think Alan deserves a lot more respect for wanting to get the game played.
I want to win this league as much as anyone, but I dont want to win by forfeit. Play your games, earn your victories and you will be a better team for it.
If nothing else, this should give us some good post-game conversation tonight.
I havent looked to see who is home or away tonight, but if we are home, you can have it.
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| Gator25
July 24, 2007
11:36:32 AM
Entry #: 2279051
| ps. If your team gets shafted all the time, maybe you should think twice about calling Archie out on this board all the time. Maybe you will get more favors that way.
And if he ever does manipulate the schedule in his favor, I say let him. He does enough for this league that he kind of earned it, and, sorry here Archie, but they've never won it, so he cant be manipulating the schedule too much in his favor.
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| Bulls #45
July 24, 2007
12:05:02 PM
Entry #: 2279118
| Hey, Ben. I hear where you're coming from. Really it's not about wanting to take the forfeit or not, it's about the way it went down.
I'm gonna be out of town on the weekend that the game is being rescheduled and now I'll be missing two games - which really sucks. Initially it was an "open" weekend.(Stupid fucking weddings) Anyway, there are several reasons I wanted to take the forfeit.
1) If we rainout the rescheduled game, then what happens? Is there room for us to make it up or will we just be fucked?
2) I have a friend who races in the Busch Series which was at Gateway this past weekend. I didn't go to the race (I would have had a garage pass) because we had a game scheduled. So I am pissed about missing that. And before anyone says anything, it takes two weeks to get a pass - background check and all that good stuff. So no, Friday wasn't far enough in advance. ;)
3) 5 games in 7 days sucks. It puts a strain on my pitchers. (I know you don't understand this part cause JD can throw back to back to back games and be ready to go the next day) Unfortunately, my guys are human. :)
All in all I'd rather have played ball. Like I said, it's just a matter of the way it went down.
Look forward to our "rubber-match" tonight.
See you at the ballpark.
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| LongHaired
July 24, 2007
1:15:32 PM
Entry #: 2279306
| It's true. Jeremy is gay, lame, and a pussy.
You and your forfeit taking ways.
What's next asking Tim if there is Zima at the concession stand?
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| Bulls #45
July 24, 2007
2:41:15 PM
Entry #: 2279542
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Anyone want a mediocre center fielder with a bad attitude and no respect for authority?
The Bulls have one available.
Will trade for a case of Budweiser.
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| Spiced rum
July 26, 2007
12:24:51 AM
Entry #: 2282765
| Wow, how did I miss all this? Taking forfeits is pretty lame. Dennis needs to get his shit tight and have 9 or know it sooner than day before. Only thing worse than a rain out is theother team calling late and cancelling. Always seems to happen just as you convince yourself that this is more than a rec league. We all know that everyone gets jacked up and listens to death metal on the way to these games because we love to play.Common etiquette dictates that if there is a doubt on your end, you need to notify the other manager ASAP. Ben's Cardinal game was a struggle from Monday to Saturday. We all exhausted our lists of replacement players. We brought out a sucklord and lost, but we got the game in. And that is why we go to the cage in January,to PLAY THE GAME.Since every one makes the playoffs, the focus of the manager shouldbe to play as many games as possible, thus getting your moneys worth. Archie, That was a hoosier display screaming about 90 F-bombs at a guy right in front of a 6 year old kid. Doesn't matter what is said on this message board,you knocked this league further into the bushes with that display.Very impresive.
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| Spiced rum
July 26, 2007
12:24:51 AM
Entry #: 2282766
| Wow, how did I miss all this? Taking forfeits is pretty lame. Dennis needs to get his shit tight and have 9 or know it sooner than day before. Only thing worse than a rain out is theother team calling late and cancelling. Always seems to happen just as you convince yourself that this is more than a rec league. We all know that everyone gets jacked up and listens to death metal on the way to these games because we love to play.Common etiquette dictates that if there is a doubt on your end, you need to notify the other manager ASAP. Ben's Cardinal game was a struggle from Monday to Saturday. We all exhausted our lists of replacement players. We brought out a sucklord and lost, but we got the game in. And that is why we go to the cage in January,to PLAY THE GAME.Since every one makes the playoffs, the focus of the manager shouldbe to play as many games as possible, thus getting your moneys worth. Archie, That was a hoosier display screaming about 90 F-bombs at a guy right in front of a 6 year old kid. Doesn't matter what is said on this message board,you knocked this league further into the bushes with that display.Very impresive.
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| gcchief44
July 26, 2007
6:28:30 AM
Entry #: 2282867
| Spiced Rum Thanks for you opinion. when your book comes out on how to run a team I will be sure to read it. This is the first game The Chiefs have had to cancel in 10 years.Letting archie and the other team know the day before is better than game time on Sat. This is not the first rescheduled game this year , so do your research and bust every other teams balls that did it.
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| Spiced rum
July 26, 2007
2:24:31 PM
Entry #: 2283939
| I have run a very successful team for years, genius. I dont need research, i have run teams in leagues where you needed to secure a field and umpires yourself. I know all about running teams. You are right, day before is less douche-y than day of. Barely. Taking a forfeit is even more douche-y. Thank you for your input. My book will hit the shelves after the first round of playoffs, so be sure to go pick one up while my team is still playing.
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| The commish
July 26, 2007
6:43:28 PM
Entry #: 2284446
| I was going to let the dust settle after my inexcusable tirade Tuesday night, but a few things need to be addressed. I am not proud of my actions, but I will not appologize for the sentiment. As far F-bombs go they can heard on any given day or night out there. I know you don't live in glass house.
I took total responsibility for the May Day rain out, so lets put that to bed. All parties were explained how that happened. We had rainouts May 9;10 and rain around the area May 11. The one time I don't drive to the ballpark to get a visual, no rain hits Cahokia. I dropped the ball.
Fast forward to June 30, a dedicated few made a committment to save the four games that day after three rainouts during the week. One of the teams that strolled out and benefitted from the almost six hours of work was the abused and screwed-over Bulls. I heard numerous comments to the effect that " I can't believe were playing today". I have mentioned many times at league meetings that it is no mystery we need help to play games on weekends after Friday night rains. Bulls you have a chance to show your medal if you wish to play Sat@ 3pm.
Now, lets talk forfeits. In twenty-one years the Red Sox have never forfeited a game, This a record of which I am proud. Yes, we have rules in place, but I try to work with the teams to prevent them. We had two reschedules this year. One from Sat July7 between Johnnys and Gators. This is the date Alan alluded to saying I called to change the time for my teams benefit, wrong. I was trying to save the 3pm slot for which I had umpires scheduled for a double header 1230 and 3pm. I called Norm first to see if Cardinals and Monarchs could move up. It could not happen, then I called Alan to see if our game could move into that slot. In the meantime I called my guys to try to make it happen, it could not. Typical of mens baseball people make other plans around our games. Johnnies was also willing to take the forfeit, but that would not solve the umpire situation. That's when I called Alan back and told him to keep the original timeslot. The only folks that got screwed here were my umpires,yes I said it. I know nobody gives a damn about them.
I tried to do the same for the Chiefs this past weekend. I've known Dennis Gurkin for fifteen years and he has done some positive things for this league, so he gets the benefit of the doubt.
Terry Cline once called me a dictator and Norm Thompson corrected him by changing my title to " benevolent dictator". I will continue to make decisions that make some happy and some sad, but always in the interest of the league. I take no quarter from any man.
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| spicy rum
July 26, 2007
10:28:16 PM
Entry #: 2284818
| well said and I actually think you do a fine job in a thankless position. Every team has their choice of several mens leagues so if you dont like this one,leave. That said, I am glad you found the tirade ugly because it was. Solely on the kid factor. Dennis is a good fellow, even though he takes poo showers on occasion.
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| DirkDiggler
July 27, 2007
1:24:49 AM
Entry #: 2284952
| Maybe we should change our team name to the RAGGING BULLS. We could wear skirts and everything. (Gurkin might actually like that though.)
I don't give a rat's ass if we get a forfeit or not. I wasn't even gonna be there (I actually WAS at the Show Me Games). Somebody's getting beaned next time I pitch regardless. Not because I'm pissed...just because its so much fun to do.
Did someone actually use the "rainbow" thing next to their post? Yep, two people. And wouldn't you know it...one of em is actually on my team. The other guy really is just gay (no offense if you actually are - that's your problem).
PS Gurkin - You can't no-show forever. You still owe me a beer!
STILL bangin more chicks than your entire team...
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| Spice boy
July 27, 2007
9:58:06 AM
Entry #: 2285438
| Yeah, but Gurk was probably previously married to most of them.
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| Bulls r Gay Cry babies
July 27, 2007
4:40:04 PM
Entry #: 2286357
| This thread need's more cowbell.
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| argus
July 27, 2007
7:11:19 PM
Entry #: 2286599
| Wow, don't log on for a few days and all hell breaks loose. Sounds like the commish blew a gasket. The BULLS seem to be the new whipping boy. I think it's a conspiracy to keep the 2nd division teams in line. Yeah! that's the ticket. They had a good mid-season run, now the cracks are starting to show. It's mighty lofty air at the top, Linc was happy with 500. He did'nt buy into that win it all crap. The lesson here is don't get too horny, even if you are the Bulls.
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| the benchwarmer
July 27, 2007
7:23:44 PM
Entry #: 2286617
| Bangin' chicks, what are their names? Rosie Palm and Many Fingers?
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| Family Fivesome
July 28, 2007
1:07:14 AM
Entry #: 2286957
| mother thumb and her 4 daughters
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