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TOPIC: team votes on usssa |
| mikeyd
July 25, 2007
1:41:08 PM
Entry #: 2281370
| just throwing it out there to those teams that might be on the fence about u-trip softball next year. there were lots of people at the meeting who were very curiuos about u-trip. my idea was to have every team do a silent ballod from the players on their roster as to whether or not they would be interested in going usssa next year. this i think would give us a better idea on how the players feel about u-trip instead of just the managers. would like to see how everyone feels about this.
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| Shamrock
July 25, 2007
8:45:37 PM
Entry #: 2282403
| Rather than jump the gun and poll the league, we're better off trying it out in the fall. The experience should make up the minds of our players (especially for those who havn't played usssa). Then, I think that would be a more appropriate time to ask the league as a whole, whether or not they'd part with ASA.
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| Ryno
July 25, 2007
11:13:13 PM
Entry #: 2282609
| No need for me to be silent. I vote against it.
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| mikeyd
July 26, 2007
1:38:33 PM
Entry #: 2283675
| we already discussed the point of trying out u-trip for the fall but insurance threw asa is paid till 2008 and going usssa will have to wait till then so trying it out in the fall is out
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| Fat Chicks Rule
July 26, 2007
4:52:06 PM
Entry #: 2284154
| As a first year player in the league who has played all the leagues, asa nsa usssa at Clegg, Atwood, Mezulla, etc. I would like to make my opinion that the league was fine and doesn't need to change a thing
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| Mac
July 26, 2007
5:22:45 PM
Entry #: 2284224
| well i have to put my 2 cents in. i play nsa at clegg, utrip basically every weekend in tournaments, and asa on sundays. there really in all honesty isnt that much different game play wise, other than the arc hieght and base paths, nothing majorly changes. its basically the bats... now nsa u can use some of the good bats then utrip u can use mostly all of them and asa u can barely use any. so i see where the guys who play in other leagues and in tournaments who spend the money to get these really good bats and then show up to sunday morning and cant use it, its a waste flat out.
I guess the big question is how do the picthers feel about it thats the big thing, like i said we play it all so when i walk up to the plate no matter where i am i ask what the arc is what the count is .... if the picthers support it and embrace it i say go for it
And on the other hand i see where a sunday morning team might not want to change anything because they think there just adapting to one style and think it would b a drastic change to learn another. when in actuality its just the arc and its not that much more as long as we decide to make our rules which we already do. so if you dont want fakes take em out if you dont want this or that everyone votes and its done with.
i think this is a fair assesment the umpiring this year has sucked and that most, not all cause i know there are a few good umps. BUT AND THIS IS A HUGE BUT does one or two good umps make up for the horendous calls,calling a guy out just to move the game along so he could make it to his next game, a strike he called when it was well outside and says ( hey its only sunday morning no big deal ) ya no big deal to him he got his money and scampered out after the 1st game, these are the kind of things we need to examine and determine if it would b better to switch for the umpiring or can we talk to someone about this and if so will anything actually get done? thats the big question we pay to play i have a blast sunday mornings seeing the other teams bustin balls its what ball is all about Its just a shame that the umps influence these games and dont let the players.
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| Smitty
July 26, 2007
6:03:59 PM
Entry #: 2284289
| its easy to focus on the "bad calls", but its human error just like hitting a foul ball and making an error. and thats what makes baseball/softball great. i say that b/c im afraid that people think we are talking about switching b/c of bad calls. the real reason is the "unprofessionalism" that has been exhibited this year. please do the league a favor and focus on those problems, and not bad calls. no matter what association we use, the bad calls will be there, i just hope a professional explanation, and a high level of respect is brought to ALL of us "only sunday morning" players.
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| Mac
July 26, 2007
8:17:34 PM
Entry #: 2284498
| thats what i mean i dont mind if they blow a call here or there it happens everyone makes mistakes im saying there making more mistakes because of there unprofessionalism by taking off in the middle of the 2nd or leaving after game 1 it puts alot more pressure on the ump that is doing his job and staying im just asking for more commitment by these guys its like come on give us what we are paying for dont screw us
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| Littleguy
July 27, 2007
6:00:04 PM
Entry #: 2286389
| Does it really come down to the bats and how many homeruns one can hit? Yes I will agree I think everyone's major complaint is def the umpiring and that can be easily fixed.You dont ump both games you dont get paid! As far as guys paying tons of money for bats that are legal in one league and illegal in another, well that is on you for making that decision to purchase that bat and playing in multiple leagues. I am not saying shame on you, but if you like a bat that much why not buy the one that is legal for both? They do make most bats that have ASA which is legal in every league and then they have supped up versions that are legal in other leagues. For example The Mutant. It costs more than most illegal 120mph bats, does it make it better? Of course not! They also have a 120mph version.If I played in other leagues, which I do not, I probably would have gotten the 120mph bat. Why?? Well like most because the ball will go further right? That is why we all go out and buy these bats every year.In all reality you still have to know how to hit a softball. Like I said this is just my opinion and I don't have much experience playing in tournaments and multiple leagues I have always played Sunday mornings. But does it come down to lets go Utrip so we can use these other bats and look like a superstar and hit more homeruns??. Isn't that why everyone ran out and bought the Ultra II?????. Just from reading all these posts on Utrip and such I think it just comes down to we are not getting our money's worth in Umpiring and we should just work on that. This year is the best year as far as competition that we have seen am I wrong? It is not easy to say that the top 6 teams are always gonna make the playoffs like in the past. There are some teams that have realy improved and that makes for a great league because on any given Sunday a team can win! Just my opinion! I love this league and think there are some really great guys and teams. Lets keep it the same, just work on the umpiring!!
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| Uncle Mertog
July 28, 2007
11:49:20 PM
Entry #: 2287810
| If the only issue is the unprofessionalism of the umpires, I say we just beat the dickens out of em' and get new ones.
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| ARTIEKARATE
July 29, 2007
10:18:46 AM
Entry #: 2288048
| Littleguy , one of the concerns ive heard is the bats . As we get deeper into this we are going to have some decisions to make . I personally think there is no huge difference in the bats . The other thing is the pitcher can pitch from 6 feet behind the mound , so that helps him alot more . The guys who are hitting homeruns now are gonna hit them reguardless of the bat . Will the bats help some guys ? Yes , but the difference is not so dramatic that it should change our mind . Come on we play at some feild that are 265 ft , my 9 yr old could get it out . As we hear concerns we can address them and come up with ideas to solve the problem . We could always use a ASA bat list under USSSA rules .It was done in East Providence when they started USSSA . These are the concerns we need to know about , so we can come up with a plan to make everyone happy . The umpires are a huge part of this as well as the $3000 we can save the league . These umps think its there right to umpire our games . I think its our right to have guys who know whats going on and want to be there on the feild . If mert cant make the meeting on the 6th come in his place or come with him if he is coming . Brian will answer all our concerns .
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| Uncle Mertog
July 30, 2007
12:18:08 AM
Entry #: 2289012
| Artie, that was an eloquent, well thought out response..you are starting to scare me!
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| ARTIEKARATE
July 30, 2007
3:36:09 PM
Entry #: 2290322
| Mert "go f@#k yourself ill shoot box and kill your pitcher" wasnt working so i had to come up with something else .Mert we have been getting snaked all year by these guys and its time for them to go .They stink and ASA stinks .I think changes will help the league . We will have teams begging to get in and they will have to come in under our bylaws .
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| Dionne
July 30, 2007
4:13:38 PM
Entry #: 2290408
| I agree with Ryno....keep it the same...Artie is really the main one pushing for the change. Stop being one of Cipolla's minions and just let it be. With some of the hitters in our league now they don't need better quality bats they already kill pitches. Saving the league money means what exactly? Still won't have stationary bags, outfields that will always need to be cut? Awesome. There's enough utrip during week nights and tourney's and ASA is a dying breed but our league is big time competitive this year and we still always have to turn teams away. Keep it the same and quit your bitching.
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| EW33
July 31, 2007
4:12:43 AM
Entry #: 2291481
| Artie isnt the only one pushing for it. Others like the idea they are just not logging in and talking. The "online" community we have seems to not like the idea. The people saying no with the exception of Ryno wouldnt know their ass from their elbow.
Littleguy thinks its about bats - not even close to the reason we want to change format. It has already been said that we can use the same bat list we currently use.
I dont give a fuck about ASA and this dying breed as far as im concerned its a dying breed for a reason. Those reasons are its umpires suck and its commissioner sucks.
Dionne just doesnt like artie so he figures he can try and quote lb4lb. Which you will never be as clever as lb4lb so leave the clever quotes and nicknames to him.
That leaves me ryno. The softball player that i respect, the guy i have downed a few beers with from time to time at clegg. I trust you have a reason but as of yet I have not heard one other than that you dont like it.
Therefore noone has put up a good reason yet not to try it. Just a lot of whining about why leave whats not broken alone. The problem is it is broken. The umpires suck and do you really think we can "whack them into submission?" I sure dont think so. You think that they give two shits about our sunday morning league? Get real. If they are this way now they will be this way later.
USSSA umpires are better for so many reasons i cant even begin to list them all. The main one that does it for me is they run to be as close to the play as possible. Half the umpires or more are wearing neoprene leg braces and have ace bandage wraps on their legs because they run so much. Those umpires hustle their asses off to get in position to make the best calls possible and in more cases than ASA umps they get the call right.
The quality of USSSA is far above ASA and noone on here can dispute that or has disputed that. So why the fuck would you not want to try it out for a year? The simple answer is because everyone on here that has complained is simply not thinking it through they just dont like it because they think artie has something to gain by doing this. He has nothing to gain. We are a USSSA team already and already have earned our points we dont get free points or money for having our league change to it. Prata bar softball does not need any help to earn their bids. We just like the format, the umpires and the professionalism of the commissioner. He cares enough to even return phone calls. (something the other commissioner does 2 months later)
To sum it all up you guys should want to try it out. If it isnt better then we vote again next year and change back to ASA. I really don't see the harm in it.
The players make the league not the bats, not the rules, not the umpires, but if we can improve the rules or the umpires why shouldnt we?
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| mikeyd
July 31, 2007
8:10:19 AM
Entry #: 2291569
| hey ernie, demonti here. that was a very well thought out response to a very hot topic. you are absolutely correct on every aspect of what you said. what the hell do we as a league have to lose. in my opinion we have everything to gain. if it doesnt improve our league than we can switch back as easy as we changed in the first place. let the players in our league decide. the 4 people who keep bitching on the web will not have the voice in numbers to make a difference anyway. hey guys, if you cant beat em join em. i love you dionne but wake up and smell the jaeger bombs bro!
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| ARTIEKARATE
July 31, 2007
8:31:07 AM
Entry #: 2291593
| Dione , if you read my post you will see that i suggested a ASA bat list . My team doesnt need a flat pitch , better bats or a better ball to hit the shit out of the ball . We ARE trying to get better umps , save alot of money and play a better game PERIOD !! The balls and bats can be left the same so now whats your gripe . I think alot more guys are for this than you think . If your gonna trash me try to come up with something original . As far as LB4LB is concerned he is now all for USSSA . Its gonna take a little work to get it to what we want but it will be done . As far as the arc of the pitch id think that your guys would love it , being mostly young baseball players . CIPOLLAS MINION OUT !!!!
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| Ryno
July 31, 2007
8:51:42 AM
Entry #: 2291611
| Ernie that was a well written argument. You had your wife write it nicely while you went on a tirade in the background didn’t you? We can spend Saturday pissing about it some more of a couple of ice cold adult beverages :)
I have several reasons for voting against USSSA.
1. I don’t like it that much. I prefer good old fashioned high arc slow-pitch. That’s a personal opinion. This is odd because I probably have hit about .700 in USSSA tournaments, and have a couple of all-tournament team selections under my belt.
2. I don’t think this league has enough experienced players to make that adjustment.
3. I think the change will attract too many superstar type players and the spirit of this league truly is to give “E” and rec players a place to play. For 20+ years was a place for these guys to play against each other and not have to deal with stacked teams such as VFW and PNA. With the new exempt rules added in do you think teams like the Stallions and CC Fire (no offense intended) are going to be able to attract guys like Cress, DJ, and other players of that ability that would play here? They would join the powerhouse teams and further spread the gap. And as a member of a powerhouse team, I would directly benefit from this, and I am still against it.
4. Enough guys can’t throw strikes, now you want to change the pitching rules entirely.
5. Nothing personal to Artie or any of you VFW guys but I can’t help but feel this is a move to benefit the VFW that just happens to come at a time when umpiring is worse than ever. So strike while the iron is hot. I expect to see some top notch utrip pitcher suited up for the posties next year. Or there is some kind of tournament entry discount, higher seeding, or points benefit for playing in a USSSA league, as opposed to entering the tournaments as an ASA or NSA team.
6. Brian Cipolla is surrounded in constant controversy regarding player classifications. What happens to players in this league? Technically this would be an “E” league. Does that mean Petey Playa, Keenan, Ernie, Me, Bob Sisson, and others that should not be “E” players are classified as “E”?
7. I’ll use myself for this example: What happens when I want to play in a USSSA tournament but I am locked to the PNA roster? Or if I do play a tournament for a RI “D” team or a CT “C” team (sandbagging is not as big in CT)? Can I not go back to my PNA team because we are an “E” league team?
8. What kind of balls does USSSA use compared to the mushers we have now? That is just as important as the bats.
9. Anyone considered ISA or NSA or WSA?
10. I can probably come up with more but I think that is enough to present an intelligent counter.
For the positives that can come out of this.
1. We can save some money for the league and maybe finally get some orange safety bases. I swear to god the next person that steps on my foot at first will get punched in the balls. How many years do I have to bitch before my ankle gets snapped and I have to go postal on someone? Does beating the shit out of someone on the field carry the same fine as drinking in the parking lot at Fish Hill?
2. As I stated in an earlier post USSSA umpires are far better. They have a better grip on the rules and have control of the games. Every time that I have played USSSA the umpiring has been outstanding. Not in calling plays but hustling to get in position and making an effort. Also being able to answer questions if you have something you don’t understand or explaining a ruling to you instead of getting on a high horse and basically just saying “because that is my call”.
4. We can have a bat list written into the bylaws. Following the USSSA bat list would be a minimum requirement. We can further restrict bats on our own. We just couldn’t reduce the official USSSA list.
5. Brian Cipolla is reliable, knows the rules (and loopholes), and overall does a good job as director. From what I have heard he is good with returning calls, answering questions, and things of that nature. I have not dealt with him personally other than during games when he is coaching.
6. Aside from the funky pitching crap and fakes and through the legs and the Ricky Reynolds cartwheels, the pitcher can pitch from as far as 6 feet back. This is good and bad. Good that it can be safer for a pitcher. Bad because you are basically throwing a batting practice fastball from 12 feet away.
7. We can again adjust out bylaws to reduce pitching crap and also keep a man over the middle. We can also select a pitching distance that is solid so that we don’t have guys all over the place. Select a safe distance of say 9 feet or whatever.
I liked the fall league trial idea. It’s too bad we can’t do that.
All that being said…. If it gets voted in then fine I’ll make the best of it.
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| ARTIEKARATE
July 31, 2007
9:02:15 AM
Entry #: 2291626
| So we keep the same balls , we keep the same bats , we vote out pump fakes , we get better umpires , we save close to $3000 dollars , we get a better stronger association , we get a more hands on stete director , so where are the big changes ? The only real change is the arc which goes from 12 ft to 10 feet max . So it comes down to a matter of 2 ft . Im open to any other suggestions . NSA is great also but the dont have the umpires to support our league . Josh didnt you say you were gonna chase USSSA next year ? So if your so against it why are you gonna play it ? If you are truly against it because of me thats really childish .
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| ARTIEKARATE
July 31, 2007
10:07:06 AM
Entry #: 2291769
| Ryno there are will be no classifications in the league . That only comes into play if a team decides to play in tournies . Every team in the league would be considered E . Player lassifications comes from winning a worlds or dominating tourney play . We will govern ourselves brian will have nothing to do with the regular league rules and bylaws . We are basicly using USSSA umps and using USSSA to get the savings on the insurance . USSSA lets the pitcher pitch from six feet from behind the mound , so there is a added protection for the pitcher . The balls are a 44 core 375 compression . The same ball we use now .I would say its harder to throw a 18 ft rob raymond sky bomb as to throwing the ball 6 to 10 . As far as my plans on a pitcher i have tommy and thats not the reason for the interest . From what i hear Ricky will be on diones squad but the cartwheels and pumpfakes i think will be voted out .Im gonna sound like a broken record , better game , better umps and we can save close to $3000 .
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