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TOPIC: Why doesnt any one want USSSA %100 |
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| Lemdawg316
February 21, 2008
7:40:39 PM
Entry #: 2614529
| Mondays meeting is coming quick, and i was wondering why people are AGAINST USSSA in full effect? BESIDES the bats, what are reasons. i know ernie dont like the pitching? your tournamnet team is gonna play %90 usssa tourneys with the best pitchers, why not practice, and how many sunday am pitchers will use it?? just an example and a topic so on monday when ricky sousa(one of if not the best USSSA pitcher) and cipolla come to the meeting and its not a bunch of coventry rednecks(myself included)looking like a monkey trying to fuck a football!
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| Uncle Mertog
February 22, 2008
7:37:10 AM
Entry #: 2615139
| Note sure what you are getting at Lemdawg? By Usssa in full effect are you talking about adopting all the USSSA rules and and dropping our own by-laws.
1. The only issue that anyone had with ASA was the umpiring, everyone liked the ASA rules and ARC and everything else. The savings in money was an added bonus, but the only issue was the quality of umpiring. Other than that no one wanted to make a change to USSSA.
Everyone had major concerns about the bats that were going to be used in as much as the pitcher getting pelted. I'm not one to subscribe to that, my personal opinion is that it is a mans position but remember we are in Coventry sunday morning league and some guys just don't know where the ball is going when it leaves the bat.
As for the bats, if anyone needs the 120 bats to hit it out of a Coventry field I suggest they start roiding up. I can't see throwing out the old bat list because so many guys have bought their freaks and synergys already and it is kind of fucked that ASA would eliminate bats that were legal? Makes no sense other than to sell more bats. So I say fuck em.
As far as the fakes and dekes go in USSSA, that shit is just fucking gay. Nobody likes it everyone talks about how stupid it is, you don't see it anywhere else, and the reason why; because it is fucking childish. Even USSSA itself is putting an end to it by changing the rule that the pitcher after all his gay assed antics has to stop and present the ball before pitching it, which kind of defeats the purpose of all the stupid ass fakes now doesn't it?
The two reasons that we backwoods inbred Coventry hicks are going for USSSA is for the better quality of umpiring and the reduced price. Thats it in a nutshell. No one wants a new bat list, they only want the ones they already have protected. Nobody wants the fakes. Everyone seemed to like the idea of pitching 5 feet from behind the mound for added protection.
The only one I did not understand is why they would still want to maintain the ASA arc, it would seem to me that they would welcome the lesser arc. I could care either way, but USSSA arc is better for everyone except Rob Raymond who likes to try to get away with a 18' footer.
That's pretty much what was discussed at the meeting. Everyone seems to be into USSSA as long as we can maintain our own autonomy in regards to certain by-laws.
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| EW33
February 22, 2008
9:58:21 AM
Entry #: 2615331
| Lem I think you need to clarify or maybe you have the wrong idea i love utrip pitching but i hate the fakes those are for queers they fuck absolutely noone up just make the game take a little longer and make the pitcher look like an idiot. As for the arc, i absolutely love a flat pitch.
I am all for 100% usssa bat list and everything except we need to keep our exemption rules. I only want the bat list because currently i have a megamaniac which while it sounds intimidating is in no way a better bat than the original freak yet for some reason it is on the banned ASA since it came out. I think that ASA bat list is a fuckin joke. The best move we could make as a league would be to use the usssa bat list because great for this year we can use last years ASA list but how does that help us next year or even this year with some of the new bats that werent on the ASA list..... too confusing make it simple we use the USSSA bat list from now on. It hurts absolutely noone and benefits those that play durnig the week that dont want to buy multiple bats.... as it is i have to buy something stupid to keep my wife happy after i buy a new bat every year or two. never mind two bats lol.
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| Uncle Mertog
February 22, 2008
12:17:00 PM
Entry #: 2615642
| Gentlemen, Baby steps...baby steps. There are alot of concerns regarding the bats right now and the important thing is to get USSSA sanctioning first and then worry about bat lists in the future. Lets fight one battle at a time and work on the bat list at a later date.
Two primary arguments right now are USSSA sanctioning and sponsorship vs. players rights.
The other issue that arose at the meeting was whom does this league serve, the players or the sponsors? The fundamental argument is that if a sponsor leaves a team stranded, those players go unprotected despite how long they have played in the league. This allows a sponsor to pretty much do what he pleases when he so choses and can dump his team for a better one or for whatever reason at anytime. This is pure unadulterated bullshit. The primary concern of this league should be first and foremost to protect it's players....period.
Sponsors rights were written into the by-laws when this was a beer league and it was done essentially to create business for sponsors, those days are long gone. It would be nice for everyone to support their sponsor and I make the effort to get everyone down to the pub to show appreciation for sponsorship. But when the sponsor and the players have an issue, such is the case for several teams, it should decided on the number of contracts retained by either the sponsor or the players. If the bulk majority of players wish to leave the sponsor there has to be a pretty damn good reason? Why should a sponsor be able to look for a better deal but the players can't?
In the case of Smitty, what would have happened last year if a spot was not available to him...he and all his players would have been out in the cold...simply because his sponsor was looking for a better deal. That is pure fucking bullshit no matter how you look at it. Fortunately there was an opening. If it were this year...he would be screwed. In fact his team already got screwed because they got dropped way down in seniority. That is just plain wrong and a major reason the by-laws must be changed. TO be most fair to everyone, it should go by who retains the majority of contracts..the manager or the sponsor...that will determine who gets the place in the league and seniority and who has to wait for a spot to open up. This will make the sponsor and the manager have tow work together in order not to lose their seniority and position in the league. Right now the players are at the mercy of the sponsors whims. This is the issue that need be fixed first and foremost.
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| Smitty
February 22, 2008
2:56:05 PM
Entry #: 2616045
| actually mert, i must correct you. i didn't lose seniority or anything else because of a vote. there was a possibility of dionne moving to 3rd because thats where the sponsor was and me being dropped. the league managers understood that wasn't right and we voted on a seniority list.
seniority list as of 3/19/07
vfw
pub
botelho
baxters
club j.
pna
raymond ins.
sunset
chris moulton
harris
del pad
crowe
stallyns
eaton
aplus
ccfire
we now need to rewrite rule 6 to protect players and managers from sponsors leaving, going out of business, picking up other teams, dropping vested players, etc.
heres what i have so far but it only covers part of the issues....
if a sponsor chooses to leave a team in order to sponsor another existing or new team, the manager of the sponsorless team will hold all rights attained provided they secure contracts from at least 9 players who played in at least 8 games the previous year.
let me know what you think or what should be added....you can read rule 6 in the bylaw section on the website.
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| Dutilly
February 22, 2008
3:31:47 PM
Entry #: 2616146
| Mert the whole thing with the bat list is so many guys have bats that they swing all week and cant swing on the weekend lets be honest the Freak is by far the best bat out there besides an ultra which we have been using the freak all along so by using the usssa bat list were not letting any better bats in like ernie said his megamaniac isnt half as good as the freak but he cant swing it cause its not an asa bat which is a joke so i personally do not think there is a safety issue with thatI CONSIDER A SAFETY ISSUE WHEN ARTIE SLEEPS WITH A WOMEN....
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| Uncle Mertog
February 22, 2008
4:31:58 PM
Entry #: 2616300
| Ian, I think the by-laws should protect the players as much as it protects the sponsors. In the case of which you spoke, had there not been an open position for another team, you and your guys who have been around for years would have been out of the league. That is simply not fair no matter how you look at it.
The by-laws should always follow the contracts which in turn would protect both sponsor and player alike.Thus it would look something like this:
A sponsor is guaranteed a position in the league provided that he/she has fullfilled all his/her obligations to the league and maintains the majority of contracts of players returning from the previous year.
I believe we spoke at the meeting about the number being 9 contracts so it would stand to reason..
If a sponsor wishes to change teams or a team wishes to change sponsors, whoever controls at least 9 contracts AND the majority of returning players to the league would be entitled to the position and maintain all seniority rights enjoyed by that team previously. If for some odd reason it were a tie then the position would remain with the old sponsor, if neither the team or the sponsor can arrive at a majority or make the 9 required contracts the old sponsor would reserve the right to the position.
What this essentially does is guarantee that everyone is treated fairly and that the fate of each team would rest with the players that were on that team the previous year. They would control their own destinies and not be subject to the whims of the sponsor.
Each player pays their own individual league fee of 50.00 and thus should have some say in their fate. The sponsor pays the league fee in most cases of 350.00 but the players all are the ones who kick in 50.00 to play, and thus should be represented as vigorously as the sponsor. The bulk majority of money raised comes from the players themselves and not the sponsors (in this league anyway)
What it boils down to is equity and fairness for everyone involved. Loyalty is a two way street and if a sponsor is good to his team and the team isgood to it's sponsor there will never be a problem, but the rule would offer protection for players from a situation that happened to you last year.
I think most people would be in agreeance with this sentiment.
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| Uncle Mertog
February 22, 2008
4:38:07 PM
Entry #: 2616307
| Dutilly,
I'm not opposed to using the USSSA bat list, I'm simply trying to work out a happy medium with everyone involved so that they will rest a little easier about making a transition over to a new sanctioning body. We have to address everyones concerns in the league equally, and there are some people whom are simply not comfortable with all the changes.
I personally could care less about what bats are used so long as the bats that we were using are still allowed, that was my concern and many other peoples concern as well. But there are some who are legitimately concerned about it and they have an equal voice at the table and have to heard. Thats all I'm saying.
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| Dutilly
February 22, 2008
7:11:29 PM
Entry #: 2616658
| i hear ya it wasnt directed at you personally just in general( i would never say anything negative towards you cause i may need your help someday when im doing 10-live from getting gang raped
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| Uncle Mertog
February 22, 2008
10:07:28 PM
Entry #: 2616968
| Duts....you look like a complete psychopath, you would never have any trouble in the joint. I'll just go around telling the other cons that you ate your last cell mate....no one will ever fuck with you again.
Mert loves ya baby!
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| EW33
February 23, 2008
11:01:01 AM
Entry #: 2617354
| mert the issue with sponsors is more important no doubt but a simple yes / no vote on the bat list being usssa is in order in my opinion. I think you will be surprised to see that most will be for it. It's just a matter of we already agree that ASA bat list is bogus so that leaves nsa or usssa. Pick one either of which is fine by me but since we are going usssa we might as well adopt their list since the umps are knowledgable of that list.
Mert i think somewhere in those rules of order you will find that 2 issues should be able to be resolved at the same meeting ! lol just kidding dont get your panties in a bunch or i will have to send dutilly to straighten em out with his teeth ( a trick that ming taught him)
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| Littleguy
February 23, 2008
11:31:09 AM
Entry #: 2617384
| Yeah so if we keep the old bat list I can still buy an UltraII repainted as a freak on ebay! Bizzombs baby!
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| RyMan
February 23, 2008
2:46:50 PM
Entry #: 2617606
| Does a switch to Utrip mean a switch to the high compression balls?
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| Uncle Mertog
February 23, 2008
4:30:28 PM
Entry #: 2617729
| Ernie...As I said I'm down with anything, we could play with rocks and tree branches and I'm down. I was just simply pointing out some of the things that were said at the meeting.
All I am saying about the matter is this...make sure that YOUR manager voices his opinion and votes on behalf of the majority of YOUR team. The only ones who have a vote are the managers so it is critical that each manager reflects the feeling of his team.
I'm representing the PUB thus my vote will reflect the majority of the PUB players. I'm calling the guys on my team each and everyone and finding out their feelings on it. With the guys I have called thus far it seems a landslide that I will be voting a USSSA bat list if it comes down to a vote. My vote always reflects what the majority of my guys want.
It's up to the other managers to do the same to ensure that everyones voice is heard.
Oh, and if you are going to threaten me...don't threaten me with Dutilly...he is too cuddly to scare me, threaten me with Ryno...if you can find his whipped ass.
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| Ryno
February 23, 2008
8:09:55 PM
Entry #: 2617997
| Lurking! I am always lurking. Since I am not going to play much I am laying low on my opinons about rule changes, exempt players, sponsors, and especially about this USSSA crapfest.
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| EW33
February 24, 2008
4:30:39 AM
Entry #: 2618367
| we already know that you are against it.... as are all old people when the subject is change.
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| Uncle Mertog
February 24, 2008
2:17:59 PM
Entry #: 2618837
| Hey. I resemble that remark. I'm old....but t least I'm smart enough to keep my old tired ass hidden behind a nice chain link fence on the safe confines of a bench.
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| Ryno
February 24, 2008
4:26:02 PM
Entry #: 2619029
| Oh how I long for the good old days of Coventry Softball.
-A plain Kmart bat for $35 was good enough. And you could still go yard. Can't hit a home run for less than $300 these days.
-You could actually drink beer on the bench in the beer league. Now you can't even drink in the parking lot after the game is over.
-There were no associations. You played slowpitch or modified. Those were your choices.
-Everyone, including wives, went to the home team bar and got shitfaced all afternoon. Now maybe 5 people go and the winning team doesn't even get a free pitcher of beer anymore.
-I was a better hitter than Jay Campbell way back then :)
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| Dutilly
February 24, 2008
8:26:58 PM
Entry #: 2619472
| Ryno bats cost 35 bucks in the 60"s?
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| Uncle Mertog
February 24, 2008
9:55:53 PM
Entry #: 2619690
| Alas poor Ryno, I knew him well 
Ryno, you poor soul…once one of the greatest and most feared hitters in the league, reduced to reflecting on memories of the good ole days and selling his senior citizen discounted medication and waiting by the mailbox in boxer shorts, robe and slippers for a social security check to come in.
Ah, I remember when you could go down to the corner store and buy an entire bag of candy for 10 cents and a comic book was a nickel. Packs of cigarettes were 35 cents and we would trudge through the snow uphill both ways in a blizzard to fetch ma and pa the milk and bread and the reward of a comic was all the incentive we needed to make the perilous trek.
And there were three TV stations all for free and in color! Yes, those were indeed the days…and there is something to be said for them and they should be held in reverence…because they are part of all of our lives. However, the sad truth is we must move on because those days are gone.
One thing has not changed and has been a steady constant in an ever changing world….that’s right my friends, Bob Ross.
Other than that, things have changed and so must we. Ryno, no question it was great to be able to pick up a 35 dollar bat from K-mart and go out and just play. Fact is it was nice when gas was 50 cents a gallon too. This is not the leagues fault, or anyone else affiliated with the league…this is simply a sad social commentary on how things are today. Prices of bats is not the underlying issue here, the underlying issue is a dead rotting corpse that needs to have the last shovel of dirt dumped down upon it so we can move along.
The facts are that ASA has been contacted as to the reprehensible behavior of their umpires and every single manager has voiced several complaints and cited several incidents to both the head of the umpiring committee and to Beverly and nothing has ever been done about it. They show up late, if at all and want to leave early. They want payment for 1 and ½ guys for 1 umpire when the other doesn’t show and they rush the game along for no other reason than they want to get out of there and get to the next game. We have seen them intentionally make the wrong calls to speed the game up so they can go attend to another game somewhere else. Once again I will say this: “Their failure to plan ahead is not our emergency”. After several attempts to contact the ASA, they never sent a representative down to meet with us nor did they even return our e-mails or phone calls.
It’s long past time to wash our hands of these slags and walk away clean and start fresh. In addition, what has ASA done for us? Lousy umpiring, poor coverage of our games, increased fees just about every year, banned bats that people bought only last year, increased insurance rates for the same coverage, no wonder why they lose more and more leagues to USSSA each and every year. Soon you will not be able to find an ASA league anywhere. Meanwhile, their counterpart at the USSSA has offered us better umpiring and demand that their umps undergo rigorous training seminars to better prepare them for the upcoming season, something the ASA simply does not do. Take a test and you are good to go. They have promised a freeze on rates for at least three years and offer their services at a much cheaper price which translates into savings for the league and the players themselves. This could actually spell lower player fees for the players and/or money for the league to put elsewhere. In addition they offer the same insurance coverage of 1,000,000.00 for over 100.00 less per team.
That’s right in today’s inflated economy the USSSA is offering more for less. This is probably because they are governing more and more sports such as Softball, Volleyball and yes even competitive Tae Kwon Do. They have more money coming in and thus are able to offer a much better deal to their customers. It is just simple economics.
As for the exempt rule, no one has talked much about that in quite some time and I think it will be around for some time to come. I personally have no problem with it since the league has shown substantial growth and has done pretty well with it in place. It seems to work with some minor tweaking from time to time. The exempt rule was toyed with a bit to allow the bottom teams to add one more exempt to their roster and that seems to have balanced things out in the league as evidenced by the 7 team log jam for spots 4 through 8 the last two years for the playoffs. It is working.
As for the sponsors, and here is where the rubber truly meets the road and a frank discussion needs to take place. As I see it, this league is a softball league and not the chamber of commerce for the town of Coventry. The league’s sole purpose, its raison d’être is to protect the players not the sponsors. It is not the job of the league to govern, regulate, dictate or decide in any way how business outside of the league is to be conducted. Its only purpose is to reside over and govern what happens on the fields each and every Sunday. Nor is it the job of the league to spark business for the sponsors. It is solely upon the managers to try to help the sponsor by guiding business to him/her in exchange for sponsoring the team. If the sponsor finds that sponsoring a team is not a lucrative investment than he/she has the option of withdrawing their sponsorship. The sponsor is given the choice of whether or not they wish to continue to sponsor the team, but to give them complete autonomy over the players is absolutely absurd.
As it stands a sponsor can at anytime drop his team and replace them with people they feel spend more money in their bar, such was the case with the Crowe bar. Now just think for a moment if the league did not have an open spot for Smitty and his players, what then. Well, the league would have lost the website for openers and a damn good potential candidate to run the league in the future when the Baxter’s eventually have had enough. The league would have lost the team that actually won the championship this year. Imagine the team that won the championship nearly didn’t even have a season due to an antiquated rule that still remains on the books.
Or take for instance The Young Guns (Started out by sponsoring themselves) later acquired UNIFIRST, then Rosie’s, then Sunset and now Shamrock Financial. What if after all the hard work that the manager did to keep his young team in the league one of his sponsors decided to say….I’m taking the team over and you’re out. What if Sunset simply said to him, your guys don’t come in and drink enough in my bar so I’m putting together a team of people who frequent my bar and you’re out? That is not good for the players and it is even worse for the league.
Or let’s say this year now that Chip has taken over for Baxter’s a team that was run for years by the same guy and have now just acquired sponsorship from Patriot Oil. What if Patriot said, your guys don’t buy oil from me so I’m taking over the team and putting guys on it who buy my oil. Chip and his boys are out and the sponsor is in according to the old by-laws. How is this good for the league? It’s not because each and every time it happens you are losing good players who will no doubt go to other leagues and have nothing to do with Coventry again. The rule needs to go. While all of these scenarios are probably unlikely, the threat looms large over our heads like the Sword of Damocles! It is possible and we have seen it happen. Drink that in! Drink that in!
So let’s be honest here for a second in about who really runs the teams, the players and managers or the sponsors? Yes, true there are a few sponsors who act as the managers as well and this conversation really has nothing to do with them since they are doing all the work and have had the same bunch of guys for years…such as Moulton, DelPadre and Baxter. But the bulk majority of teams are in fact run by the manager and the manager alone. Yes, the sponsor puts up the initial fee of 350.00 but what do they do after that? They allow their managers to run the team and take care of all the nasty business that comes along with the job.
In my case, my sponsors also happen to be good friends of mine so I do as much as I possibly can for them. I have a good relationship with my sponsor and I do the best I can to get people into the Pub for Steak Fry’s and after the games on Sunday. The steak fry’s usually work out nicely and we have a core group of about 6 to 8 guys who at least make an effort to get to the Pub after the games. However, I recruit the players, I keep the scorebooks, and I total up the stats and send them to Smitty. Last year alone, I paid for half of the uniforms, I paid the entire fee for fall ball for my team out of my pocket, I paid for the turkey trot out of my pocket, and I bought the bats for the team. I held cookouts at my house for the entire team; I put all the fundraisers together and sold the bulk majority of tickets. I make the calls on Sunday morning to the players to make sure they are coming; I get up and line the field on Sunday morning. I buy the lime for the field; I buy all the water for my team each and every week. I built a website for the sponsor and for the team, free of charge and I run and maintain it free of charge. I attend the meetings and do all the requirements that I’m responsible for. Most of all I sit and let the other guys play and have no problem doing so. I collect the player’s fees and makes sure all the contracts are signed and everything is good to go on a weekly basis. My sponsor pays 350.00 for the initial league fee for summer ball. I think it is a great deal for the sponsor. So who does the work for the team, the sponsor or the manager?
In addition I must remind everyone that the sponsor does pay the 350.00 up front, but the players each pay 50.00 per player just to play. A roster of 20 guys, that’s over 1000.00 of money generated from players, not the sponsor. How many teams can say that their sponsor pays for the league fee, all the players fee’s, uniforms, and all other expenses and the players just have to show up? This is why I find it necessary to protect the players and or managers and not the sponsor, because when the rubber hit the road it is the players that are the important part of this league and generate the bulk majority of money that we take in.
Mind you, I’m not complaining about any of it, I love doing what I’m doing and I appreciate having sponsorship and I will continue to do the best for my sponsor. I also like knowing that I am part of keeping the Pub tradition alive. That is how I got into this in the first place, because I was asked to help. But the simple fact remains that there is no protection for players in this league. We should always honor first and foremost the contracts of the players who played in this league above and beyond anything else. Those guys whom have played in this league and have sat out for their one year or have been exempted and have met the league requirements deserve to be taken care of by the league. Thus, if there is no spot available then the players and not the sponsor should get the opportunity, and of course the sponsor is still given the choice to continue sponsorship or withdrawing sponsorship.
Drink that in. Drink that in.
Don’t fear change…fear the consequences of not changing.
Mertog Out!
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| EW33
February 25, 2008
2:36:44 AM
Entry #: 2619973
| Good post that well details the bullshit we have been dealing with.
Oh and ryno I think that you could hit it out with a tree branch and you can still keep up with Campbell .... at the bar.
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| nate8
February 25, 2008
4:38:10 PM
Entry #: 2621272
| I grew up watching this sunday morning league.I can see where Ryno is coming from.But Ryno I bet you remember a time when our fathers could drive down the streets with a couple hundred empties in the back of the truck and nothing was said.Times have changed and all it takes is one clown to make a mistake and blame someone other than himself and all of the sudden"No more beers anywhere in public" Truly the good ol days are over.
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| Uncle Mertog
February 25, 2008
4:49:03 PM
Entry #: 2621301
| Nate...true story.
I remember when I was a kid my dad and I would go out fishing on the boat which usually meant there would be plenty of drinking. So there we were coming home from a night of fishing and drinking when we got pulled over by the cops. The cop asked my dad how are you, and my fathe replied ah, not too good I've a too many to drink. The cop simply said, ah your fine Mr. Moore I'll just follow you home. Those days are long gone
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| Ryno
February 25, 2008
7:05:40 PM
Entry #: 2621665
| Don't you knuckleheads understand humor when you see it. I am not complainging about the way things are today. I am making a joke about how I am nearing retirement and having flashbacks.
I expected the old guys like you Mertog to get that.
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| Uncle Mertog
February 25, 2008
11:54:23 PM
Entry #: 2622450
| Ryno, I definately got the humor and I appreciated it, and that's why I went on a rant. Actually to be honest...my rant was not directed at you in any way other than the title, I just wanted to take the opportunity to sneak in one last stentorian sermon from the mount!
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