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TOPIC: Overthrows |
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
July 22, 2008
12:57:33 PM
Entry #: 2840269
| I have been proselytizing on baseball rules for several years in this league, so it surprises me that there are STILL misunderstandings (and arguments) over the proper award of bases when the ball is thrown into dead-ball territory.
In a previous thread, I quoted the relevant rule 8-7e from the Softball Canada rulebook. In short, the award is ALWAYS two bases from the last base held at the time the THROW is made.
It does not matter which direction the baserunner was going or whether they were running at all. It doesn't matter whether they were returning to tag up on a caught fly ball (though, of course, if they don't complete that tag up before going to awarded bases, they are still subject to being called out if properly appealed by the defense before the next pitch).
There really should be no arguments over this rule except in cases where it wasn't clear what base was last held. Sometimes in a one-umpire system it is simply not practicle for the umpire to be absolutely sure of where each baserunner is everytime the ball is thrown. But that's really the only valid point of contention. Anything else is a misunderstanding of the rule.
If you are going to argue over a rule, please make sure that you have actually read the rule book. Speaking from personal experience, I was taught the common misconception that the award is the base going to plus one. When I first read the actual rulebook, I was mildly surprised to find out I had it wrong.
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
August 6, 2008
3:33:02 PM
Entry #: 2860144
| Last night, I missed my Hosanna's scheduled game in order to officiate a Div 1 game for EAMSPA. They were two pretty good teams, but guess whatthey didn't know the rule on overthrows either. So perhaps I'm expecting too much.
Two situations came up, both with the visiting team on offense.
Situation 1: Nobody on base, the batter hits a liner to the outfield for an easy double. As he's coasting toward 2B (about 2/3 of the way there), the outfielder throws the ball toward 3B. The runner rounds 2B as the throw comes in, and seeing the that throw is off line and high, he accelerates to try for 3B. The ball goes over the fielder and out of play. I award him 3B, and he complained that he should score because he was almost at 3B when the ball went out of play.
The correct award is 3B because he had not yet attained 2B when the throw was made. Therefore, the award is two bases from 1B. The home team applauded this with, "Good call, Blue!"
Situation 2: Runners on 1B and 2B (let's call them R1 and R2 respectively) with less than 2 outs, the batter hits a medium fly ball. Seeing that it will be an easy catch, both runners hold on their bases and do not attempt to advance on the touch. The fielder throws the ball to the pitcher, but again the throw is high and goes out of play. I award both runners 2 bases from time of throw, which means that R1 gets 3B and R2 scores.
Even though neither runner was moving (they were standing on their bases for the entire play), the above award is correct. But now the home team was complaining that it was wrong because they weren't trying to advance.
Sigh. At that level of ball, I really do expect them to understand the rule. But they don't.
In our league, we bring it up at the league meetings for clarification almost yearly. I think most teams to understand it, but there are still a few that don't. Am I being unreasonable in expecting no arguments on this one?
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| Jon
August 12, 2008
9:53:57 AM
Entry #: 2866842
| Dennis, I completely agree with your understanding of the rule, but I also think that at our level of ball, some teams are just out there because they love to play and not every team has a player who knows every rule in the official softball rulebook. I was talking with one of our players a few weeks ago about this same rule. He used to captain our church team for years and recently has been captaining a slow-pitch team at a higher level, and he also did not understand this rule properly.
I think it is very important for every team to have a copy of the rules, both official Softball rules AND our league rules, at every game they play. This way, if there is ever any argument over a rule because one team is understanding it differently than the other team, you can refer to the rule book. This shouldn't happen all the time, and definitely not every game. But on obscure calls that don't happen often, it would solve a lot of arguments.
One other way to really keep these misunderstandings to a minimum would be to ONLY allow players who know the rules to umpire ball games. Don't just have someone be the umpire because they aren't coming to bat any time soon...make sure they know and understand the rules before you ask them to make the call on plays when they may not know what the right call is. They aren't just calling balls and strikes out there (which can lead to enough arguments!).
Keep posting these rule posts, Dennis. They are a good reminder about certain rules, and also a reminder that all of the team captains need to be well-versed in the rules that we would encounter every day, or at least have a copy of the rules handy to refer to if needed.
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| Dennis
August 25, 2008
1:39:07 PM
Entry #: 2882113
| Thanks for your comments, Jon. But I should make one thing clearI don't know every rule in the rule book!!! When I think I do, something comes up to prove otherwise!
I do consider this league an opportunity for players to play for fun. It's also an opportunity to officiate for fun. Were it not for the "safe" environment here, I probably would not have become interested in becoming carded with Softball Canada.
In that regard, I think the most important aspect for people umpiring is a willingness to be fair. Someone with that attitude can learn the rules as they go. From personal experience, the quickest way to learn a rule is to blow it on the field and then double check the rule book. This is especially true for rules on interference and obstruction!
Before I ever cracked open a rule book, I thought I knew the rule on awarding bases on an overthrow. I thought it was the base the runner would have achieved plus one. That's wrong, of course, but most of the time it results in the same award as the correct rule, which made me think I had it right. When I actually read the rule, I did a double take. There are times that I need to remember my own misconceptions.
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