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TOPIC: Case Play (award on overthrows) |
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
April 8, 2009
5:19:02 PM
Entry #: 3117791
| Not a lot of people frequent this forum, but for kicks, I thought I'd post a case play and invite people to offer their opinion on the correct ruling. Test your knowledge. . .
Case 1: With a runner (R1) on 1B, the batter hits a line drive to the outfield. Thinking the ball will 'hit the gap', R1 advances to 2B. The fielder makes a 'shoelace' catch for the out, but the runner thinks it was 'short hopped' and thus stays on 2B.
The fielder then throws to 1B for the appeal, but the ball goes out of play. What is the base award and why? Caveats?
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
April 21, 2009
2:35:04 PM
Entry #: 3130541
| No tries at this?
I will give a bit of a hintthere are two separate issues that need to be resolved. First, the runner committed a base-running error by leaving early on a caught fly ball. Second, a live ball was thrown out of play, so there will be two bases awarded from the time of throw.
The problem is in determining how to adminster these two issues. . .
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
April 28, 2009
2:00:46 PM
Entry #: 3136536
| Well, here is the answer.
The obvious part is that a live ball was thrown out of play, and the award for that is ALWAYS two bases from the time of the throw (i.e. from when the ball left the outfielder's hand). That much is easy.
Not so easy is determining which bases are awarded. The runner had reached 2B before the throw, but 2B wasn't 'legally' attained. So the question is whether the two-base award is from 2B or 1B.
In Softball Canada's rules, a runner may not return to correct a baserunning error if the ball goes out of play UNLESS s/he was inthe act of doing so BEFORE the ball became dead. So in the original case, the award would be two bases from SECOND base. . .but the runner would be liable to be called out if the defense appeals the baserunning error (i.e. for leaving early on a caught fly ball).
Now, what if the runner had stopped halfway to 3B, realised his/her error and started to return, but was, say, two steps from retouching 2B before the ball went out of play? Which base is used to adminster the award?
Here we get into a dicey situation. With a neutral umpire, that umpire should simply state "two bases". The award is then determined by the runner because the umpire must not tip off either team that there was a baserunning error. This means that the runner has two options: (a) the runner can stop his/her retreat and advance two bases, which would be home, or (b) the runner can continue his/her retreat and retouch 1B and then advance two bases, which would be 3B.
In option (b), the runner corrects his/her baserunning error and then proceeds to the awarded bases, but the award is adminstered from the retouched base. In option (a), the baserunning error is not corrected and the runner scores, but is in jeopardy to be called out should the defense appeal (before the next pitch).
It may seem strange that there are two possibilities here, but it is predicated on the principal of umpire neutrality, which includes the requirement that the umpire aid neither team. Therefore, the umpire must allow the runner to do either of the above without comment.
But for our league, because we supply our own umpires from our lineup, I would suggest that runners always be allowed to fix baserunning errors on a dead ball, and that the award always be based correcting such errors.
I hope others find this unusual situation interesting. . .
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
May 11, 2009
1:48:02 PM
Entry #: 3151558
| Well, wouldn't you know. I was umpiring a game for another league last week, and I had a very similar situation come up.
Situation: Runner at 1B with 1 out. Batter hits a fly to medium RF. Runner is off on contact and is 2/3 of the way to 2B when the ball is caught (now 2 outs). The runner stops and turned to race back to 1B while the defense throws to 1B for the appeal.
A good throw would have easily gotten the runner. As it was, when the runner was still about 10 feet away from 1B, the thrown ball bounded past F3 towards the back stop. Seeing this, the runner stopped (about 5 feet short of retagging 1B), turned, and sprinted back towards 2B again.
When the runner was about 1/2 way to 2B, the ball bounded out of play (just missing the backstop). I called "dead ball", and the defense immediately started questioning whether the runner had to tag up. Hearing that, the runner stopped and went back to 1B as I was already calling him out on the dead-ball appeal.
Needless to say, the runner was not happy with the call and could not figure out why I wouldn't let him 'fix' his base-running error and then award him bases on the overthrow. By rule, since he was not in the act of retagging his base when the ball went out of play, he no longer had the right to do so.
Unfortunately, this is an unusual play, and it's the first time I've actually had to make this call. This may seem like I'm talking to myself, but I'm hoping at least a few people gain something from this.
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
August 4, 2009
10:59:27 AM
Entry #: 3235625
| In the real-life situation described in my last post, it turns out that I was wrong.
I wasn't entirely sure if I ruled correctly, so I sent this case up through the umpiring ranks. Brian Van Os, the National Director of Umpires (see http://www.softball.ca/main.asp?page_url=/page.asp?id=11) gave his interpretation.
The rule states that a runner may return to retouch a base left too soon so long as s/he was in the act of returning BEFORE the ball goes out of play. It does not state that s/he must be in the act of returning at the moment the ball goes out of play. Therefore, in his opinion, even though the runner had reversed directions and was trying to advance when the ball went out of play, because he had been returning before it went out of play, he should have been allowed to retag and then been awared third base on the overthrow.
And now you know (and so do I).
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| Rudy (Free Agent)
August 4, 2009
11:36:43 PM
Entry #: 3236432
| I think I liked your original ruling better. The fact that in the past the runner was trying to fix his error should not matter. He had abdicated his right to fix the error when he turned back towards 2nd. While the offical ruling is based on the official rule, it does not seem fair.
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| Jon (Mount Olivet)
August 5, 2009
10:49:55 AM
Entry #: 3236803
| I agree with you Rudy, that it seems strange that the baserunner gets a chance to correct a mistake after the 'dead ball' is called. However it does make sense in our league, since there are a number of players who have never watched nor played baseball before, and just play on their first instinct, which is to run:
They run as soon as the ball is hit, then when they realize it is caught, they try to run back to their base, and then if it is thrown away, they turn and run back the other way again. It also doesn't help that there are probably 5 or 6 people on each team yelling different instructions (some of whom also don't understand the rules completely).
Since this is a friendly league I believe that would be the right and fair call to allow the baserunner to tag up, as long as they had made the original move to run back and 'tag up'. If however they never made such a motion to turn around and head back to their base, and instead just kept running forward and around the bases, if I'm reading Dennis' ruling correctly, they would be out on the appeal. Correct?
Love these posts, Dennis. Keep them coming! (Hopefully all team coaches and the umpires on ALL of our teams are reading these as well)
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
August 12, 2009
1:21:41 PM
Entry #: 3244061
| Jon and Rudy, I have to admit that I don't really like the interpretation either.
The official rule uses the word "before" and goes something like "a runner may return to retouch a base if he was doing so before the ball went out of play" (my paraphrase I don't have the rulebook at hand). Brian Van Os's interpretation hinges on the word "before".
When I read a rule such as this, I try to figure out what it is supposed to do, and my conclusion was the same as what Jon mentioned, which is that the offense isn't given carte blanche to fix all baserunning errors simply because the defense made an error of their own. What made sense to me was that if the offense was trying to fix their error, then we let them continue to fix it. And if they weren't, then we don't.
In my example, yes, the runner was trying to fix it, but when he realised the ball was badly thrown, he changed his mind and tried to advance before the ball was dead. It doesn't seem consitent to let him fix it now, but that's because my interpretation of "before" included "at the moment" (the ball goes out of play).
If I ever actually meet Brian Van Os, I'll have to ask him more about the intent of this rule.
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