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Author |
TOPIC: Field |
| Sarge27
May 11, 2009
3:40:51 PM
Entry #: 3151648
| I had a meeting today with an expert on fields (Schaefer-Meyer) and he came up with 2 options for us. The first one was too expensive for us right now but the second option is doable. What we need form everyone is $10.00 a man ($150.00 a team) the rest of the money will come from the poker tournament.
They are going to cut out all the lips in the infield (including the pitchers mound and home plate), move home plate (it is 7 inches too close to the pitchers rubber) and level the infield with a 1 degree slope for drainage. Jerry says there in plenty of dirt already there, it just needs to be moved. This is a very good company that has worked on many of the ball fields in the St. Louis area, most notably Busch Stadium. He is trying to fit our field into his schedule for Friday the 22nd. The field will be ready to go for the May 26th game. If they can’t make that date they will be there on June 1st, field will be ready for the June 2nd game.
So we need $1000.00 down payment on the day they start. We can pay the rest after our poker tournament. Get your money to Archie ASAP every team should have money in by the end of this weekend.
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| Linck
May 11, 2009
3:56:27 PM
Entry #: 3151665
| 7 Inches too close!?!?
Maybe people really ARE throwing what appears to be 92mph out there!?!?
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| The Commish
May 12, 2009
6:12:51 AM
Entry #: 3152254
| Spoke to Mark about this and we should do this. We are never going to organize enough guys to get this work done properly. It will greatly reduce our rain-out situation and improve the overall workability of the field. Everyone get the word out so we can make this happen. The $10 dollar buck up fee is very nominal. We can DO this.
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| pirates11
May 12, 2009
7:08:05 AM
Entry #: 3152280
| Sounds good to me! I'm getting really tired of working on the field for 2 hours before every weekend game. Getting loose before the game is one thing worn out is another. Whatever it takes I'm for. We'll have our money for sure. No excuses! Every team needs to have their money this weekend. You have saved that on beer already anyway
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| T. Hart
May 12, 2009
1:43:33 PM
Entry #: 3152816
| I'll have my $10 in. Thanks for setting this up.
But if the field gets fixed, what am I going to blame my errors on?
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| Norm
May 12, 2009
5:20:05 PM
Entry #: 3153135
| Linck you have to remember its a true 7", not what you pass off to the female population as 7". Sorry I couldn't pass it up.
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| Linck
May 13, 2009
11:13:06 AM
Entry #: 3153915
| No worries. I tell them brauds all kinds of shit...
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| Bulls #23
May 13, 2009
5:16:55 PM
Entry #: 3154368
| How many thousands of dollars are we gonna put into a field that we have no guarantees that we'll be playing on next year?
Is that really the best use of our money? Perhaps looking at putting it toward field fees for a new field for next year would be a wiser thing to do?
Just throwing it out there...
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| just wandering
May 13, 2009
7:39:05 PM
Entry #: 3154518
| According to the commish Jan 16,2009 5:22 pm. They say they are going to make capital improvements to the facility. Baseball lights on the field . They have already started to set schedule to have lights completed by opening day. Remodeled bathrooms, rock for parking lot,red dirt for infield, and plans for new fence. Correct me if I'm wrong. New lights???? Two sets of lights still turn off halfway thru games. Bathrooms??? Painted yes, same old leaky men's toilet and urinal. Rock on lot ,who cares. Red dirt for infield??? New fence???
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| pirates11
May 14, 2009
7:43:34 AM
Entry #: 3154948
| Already hearing excuses! You cant just snap your fingers to magically get shit done you actually have to get your fingernails dirty and help out. We have way too many guys who talk shit about the field that think we can wave the fairy magic wand and WOW the field is done. Either put up the ten bucks or come out and help.Aint nothin to it but to do it but were not gettin it done.Lets have it done right and be done with it
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| Bud25
May 14, 2009
2:11:57 PM
Entry #: 3155521
| Danny, believe me, I know where you're coming from and there not many people that can say that. However, I think Jeremy does have a valid point.
I was out there with Mark and with the guy and heard and saw all the plans. And yes, it will fix the infield and it will fix it for the next 10-15-20 years with some regular maintenance and it will be a very nice infield. It is also something that desperately needs to be done.
I realize it's only 150 bucks per team, 10 bucks a guy or whatever, but that's for the deposit. The rest will come from the trivia night and we're talking 3 grand. I don't necessarily think it's overpriced or not worth it, but it's still 3 grand that we either pay or raise. And there really is no guarantee (i don't think) that we'll play there for the next 10-20 years. I don't mind kicking in some money as a league, but I don't think it should all of our responsibility. After all, it IS their field, we just pay them to play on it. I'm not sure this responsibility should fall completely on us.
As for the lights, I asked one Bo about it and he said they need to get the electric out to the lights on the softball field to make sure they work. How long has it been since they turned them on? I'm glad they didn't move them only to find out they don't work and then we lose night games all year.
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| Sarge27
May 14, 2009
4:09:35 PM
Entry #: 3155704
| I can't believe that this league will move from this field, they like us there.
And it is my understanding that we maintain the field and they cut and maintain everything else.
There are talks that they are going to pick up some of the bill for this infield work.
We only pay $600.00 a team to play there. Add that to the ump fees and balls and you are looking at around $2250.00 a season. (MSBL $3000.00 and only 24 games at the most. The $3000.00 to fix the field is pennies compared to what the few guys are going through to work on this field every week. (And I thank all of you that do the work)
As far as another field, what are the options?
Sauget? For the dates we need you are looking at $12000.00 a year just for the field.
I will just end with this, for those of you that are against this I expect to see every one of you out there every Friday night and Saturday morning getting this field game ready. Never thought this would be like pulling teeth.
....and what Ben is talking about is a hold'em tournament not a trivia night (JUNE 20th)
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| Bulls #23
May 14, 2009
4:25:45 PM
Entry #: 3155726
| Get a commitment - a legally binding contract - from the church guaranteeing that the field is ours for years to come and I say great idea. Until then, I think it's a waste of money - drop $3000 on a field tarp that we can take with us instead. (Which was my idea last year that everyone pooped on.)
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| Sarge27
May 14, 2009
4:43:45 PM
Entry #: 3155748
| Field tarp won't fix the problem.....
And you can always pay more money a play in a different league.
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| Bulls #23
May 14, 2009
4:51:02 PM
Entry #: 3155753
| We do pay more money and do play in another league - it's not about the money. It's about WASTING the money. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a legally binding commitment from the church before we do anything to the field. They have already come up short on their end of several things and covering our butts is the smart thing to do before investing in the field.
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| Bud25
May 14, 2009
7:37:59 PM
Entry #: 3155915
| It is our responsibility to cut the grass on the field. Maintaining it is one thing, dropping 3K of our own money to FIX the field and give it a major makeover is another thing.
I'm not against this idea at all, in fact I'm very much for it. I just don't think 100% of the cost should fall on our shoulders. Maybe a third, half at most. And Jeremy, this is NOT a waste of money. It will be money very well spent, I just don't want us to spend more than we have to.
The only other concern I have with this is that we've only gotten 1 bid. I concur, he's a nice guy and will probably do A+ work, but we have no idea what anyone else will charge. What if the A- job only costs 1800? If all else is the same, I would pick this guy in a heartbeat, but not exploring other options when we're talking 3 grand is not very good business.
Teams are being asked to buck up 650 bucks apiece for this. It's not pulling teeth, it's just making sure we are doing the right thing. We were planning the poker tourney before this ever came up and there were and still are reasons for needing that money. If we blow the wad on the field, where is the money for the other expenses going to come from?
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| Bulls #23
May 14, 2009
9:18:28 PM
Entry #: 3156037
| It IS a waste of money if we do all this work on the field and then don't get to play on it next year.
All I'm saying is that we should have some assurance from the church that this is OUR field for years to come. And based on what they've said in the past and what has actually been done - I think we need to make it a legally binding agreement.
For all we know, we dump 3k into the field, make it real nice and they're gonna say, 'OK great - next year your league fees are $1500' or 'Ok, we got a church league that's gonna use the field so you guys are out on your ass.'
I'm not trying to be an ass here, I'm just trying to make sure the league is protecting it's interests. Let's make sure there's water in the pool before we jump in.
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| Sarge27
May 15, 2009
12:40:03 AM
Entry #: 3156196
| You're right we are going to be dumped for a church baseball league. There are so many of them.
There are only a couple of company’s that specializes in this, this one is the best. You want the best you go with the best. $3000.00 is cheap.
Fuck it you guys do what you want. I'm done trying to help this league.
Sorry Arch, I tried.
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| Bud25
May 15, 2009
1:18:12 AM
Entry #: 3156218
| Come on Mark, you're better than that.
I'm sure they are one of, if not the best. And you're right, if I want the best I'll go with the best. But just because I want the neighborhood park to look the best when I take my kid there to play doesn't mean I'm going to pay to fertilize and landscape it.
3K is a lot of money and there are legitimate concerns out there. Maybe 3K to do this work is cheap, but how do we know? We have nothing to compare it to.
I'm sure there will be no issues with playing there next year, but what about 2-3-4 years down the road? You can come to an agreement with somebody with the best intentions, but if you don't protect yourself from getting fucked, that's when you get fucked.
It's their field, it's something that needs to be done and it's something that they should pay for. Any help we're willing to give them financially should be a bonus to them, not the other way around and at worst, it should be split in half.
I'm not trying to discourage it. I think Jeremy's right, we should look before we leap into this. At least get all the facts before we make a decision. Doesn't mean I'm right or Jeremy's right, but if you're asking (demanding) my money for this, I think the concerns need to be explored.
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| Wild Bill
May 15, 2009
7:46:53 AM
Entry #: 3156320
| Sarge, don't let a few people change the plans on fixing this field. We need this to happen and the Pirates support this idea. If we get chased out, I don't mind listening to the "I told you so's".
Another thing. Can I volunteer for the Texas Hold'em? I am willing to pay whatever the fee is to play but will do other things that need to be done since I don't know how to Play this game.
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| Norm
May 15, 2009
9:30:26 AM
Entry #: 3156450
| Heres my 2 cents for what its worth - fix the field. If its only $10 per man thats nothing, even if we get screwed and only use the field this year or a couple of more years. We all waste $10 easier than this - beer, cigs, cigars, lottery tickets, etc. And if we fix it and they use it for kids down the road so be it, at least they'll have a decent field. Arch democracy only works so well, sometimes a dictator is needed. Put your Castro hat on. Please somebody put Chucks $10 in so he can keep his money for his meds.
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| Captain
May 15, 2009
10:09:02 AM
Entry #: 3156509
| A novel idea, everybody keep 10 dollars in their equipment bag. By the time you play the bulls, that will have disappeared. Then, turn JD upside down and shake him.Voila! 3000.00!
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| randyfsb
May 15, 2009
12:36:12 PM
Entry #: 3156726
| One more vote for do it. I dont think we're going to get any assurance (other than verbal) that we will have first use of the field for years. We have the chance to improve the conditions for the foreseeable future. If it backfires on us, thats the way it goes. By asking $10 a man, with a TX Holdem tournament to fund this, we really are spreading the risk we're taking. If it backfires, no one person is out of $3000.
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| T. Hart
May 15, 2009
2:42:04 PM
Entry #: 3156905
| What Norm said. $10 is nothing.
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| Bulls #23
May 15, 2009
3:49:47 PM
Entry #: 3156969
| It's actually $650 per team - which is more than the league fees - but whatever, we'll get the money in eventually.
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| Bud25
May 15, 2009
5:42:56 PM
Entry #: 3157042
| I get what you guys are saying and you're right, 10 bucks a man is nothing. But it's not 10 bucks a man. 150 per team is 1350, and that's the down payment. We'll still owe 1700 on it. What if we don't make the money on the poker tourney? Then what happens? We all buck up again? And if we spend all the money on the field, where is the money for the purposes we originally intended going to come from? Do we buck up for that then?
Randy, you say we won't get any assurance and can fix it for the foreseeable future, which is the rest of this season. Is it really worth it for just this year? I doubt we get booted after this year, but it's possible, you just never know.
We will make enough to pay for the rest on the poker tourney if every team gets 10 spots. But that's just having another 10 guys who just kicked in 10 bucks to kick in another 50 each. What about the teams that don't cover their 10 spots? Are they financially responsible for those ten spots? That would be spreading the risk around. The other problem is poker nights can also flop miserably. We have done 3 of them and 2 ended up alright. The other one we combined with another team and had 19 people show. We made $0 because we paid everything out after expenses.
It's more than ten bucks a man, its an extra 650 per team.
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| BigSug
May 16, 2009
7:13:54 AM
Entry #: 3157244
| $10 per man is approximately $150 per team for a total of $1350. The rest should come from the poker tournament. We can get this done so that we will have a good field THIS year, that is good enough for me. The field has been getting worse every year for the past 4 - 5 years. It's time to fix it now, before it gets any worse.
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| Bud25
May 16, 2009
8:25:19 AM
Entry #: 3157259
| What if we don't raise the money at the poker tournament?
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| BigSug
May 16, 2009
9:08:58 AM
Entry #: 3157271
| Then everyone pays another $10.
Think about your team's savings of BYOB, pay a few bucks and get the field fixed.
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| Gabenator
May 16, 2009
3:11:27 PM
Entry #: 3157393
| You got my $10. If I'm going to hang out at the field for a few hours, I want it to be after the game. -not before the game shoveling mud.
Bulls #23 has a good point but I don't feel like we can actually protect ourselves. If they kick us out, we would have no choice but to leave. (even with legally binding documents)
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| Bulls #23
May 17, 2009
8:29:04 AM
Entry #: 3157690
| Anyone at least interested in getting a second quote?
http://www.muniegreencare.com/constathletic.htm
These guys do all the Cardinal Care fields as well as work on Busch Stadium.
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| pirates11
May 17, 2009
9:18:25 AM
Entry #: 3157716
| I'm not. What are we gonna do get bids from people all summer? whats the difference going to be 8 dollars instead of 10 dollars? Give me a fuckin break! It rained Friday night and we're not playing ball all weekend again.While we're off again today how about lookin under the couch cushions,checkin the floorboard in the car, cashing in some aluminum cans, or just stand in front of walmart with a cane, dark glasses, and a bucket and i'll bet you could come up with it.This recession is really hittin hard.Anybody else know how guys can come up with the ten bucks?I would say pimp yourselfs but im really reachin there.
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| Bulls #23
May 17, 2009
9:45:58 AM
Entry #: 3157728
| You do understand that the $10 a guy is a DOWN payment on $3000 worth of work, right?
Cutting lips off, moving the plate and laser leveling the field for 3 grand seems a bit high to me... I'll admit to knowing nothing about it, which is why I don't think getting a second estimate is a crazy idea.
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| Bud25
May 17, 2009
11:06:28 AM
Entry #: 3157782
| You're all right, 10 bucks a man is nothing. But is every team willing to be on the hook for 500 bucks in addition to the 150? That's what 10 spots costs for the poker night. If you fill your 10 spots, you're off the hook, if you're short is every team willing to put in 50 bucks for each spot they don't come up with?
I still agree that this would be a great idea. I just don't think we should rush into it. Getting another bid won't take all summer. If this guy we already talked to was the best in the area and he can get us a bid on a day's notice, why assume that no one else can?
We have no guarantees that we will play there next season or any seasons after that. The church people are very nice and they talk a good game, but so far that's about all it's been. Even if we would have played today, the grass was ridiculous every but the actual baseball field. What if they let us play out there next year but outlaw alcohol, which is a very distinct possibility. Loses a bit of it's luster then.
If we're worried about salvaging this season, that's easy to fix. All we need to do is cut off the lip down the 3rd base line from the bag to the outfield. The water runs that way naturally and stops and pools when it gets to that lip. We can use that to our advantage by removing that lip and the water will run right off the field. All it would take is a sod cutter and a half a dozen guys. If we want to get crazy, we can angle off third base like the guy was talking about.
6-10 guys and a 40 dollar sodcutter and we can get it done by noon Sat of Labor Day weekend.
That will fix the problem for this year and it's a very cheap solution and we wouldn't have any more rainouts unless they're deserved. Couldn't have played today at 10, probably could have played by 12:30, definitely could have played at 3.
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| Linck
May 17, 2009
1:54:00 PM
Entry #: 3157881
| Bulls #23 and I are available this coming Saturday morning. If we get some more support for that I'll see if we can get some refreshments from PBR.
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| Interstate Retard
May 17, 2009
2:31:50 PM
Entry #: 3157903
| Listen, I know I'm new to most of this. But we're in a pissing match with ourselves. With minimal input from the church group, arguing about how the league should move forward is pointless. We’re sitting on a wealth of good ideas and intentions.
- The $10 per person is a good idea.
- Getting a 2nd quote is a good idea.
- Splitting the cost with the church is a good idea.
- Getting things in writing is ALWAYS a good idea.
But we need to take care of the FOY family first. Let's start by not kidding ourselves. The church didn't buy the park to give FOY a place to play baseball. They bought it as a business opportunity, to make money. If WE don't play there for whatever reason, they’ll find some church softball league or a CYC little league to use the field. They can even write it off as a loss on their church’s taxes. Whether we leave on their terms or ours, they’ll put up a “FOR LEASE” sign without batting an eye. Bottom line from their end, we’re a tenant and they’re the landlord.
So let’s continue with that analogy…
For all intents and purposes, let’s say we (FOY) are an existing tenant renting a small business office in a strip mall (Cahokia Field). The new owner has committed to making improvements to the property, such as lights, fences, and ‘facility/field’ repairs. In return, we will help sustain their investment by renewing our annual lease, paying the same rent (league fees) and helping maintain the quality of the facility that they provide by raking, grass cutting, etc, so we’re not ‘working’ in a shit hole. Sounds like FOY kept up our end of the bargain, but we’re still waiting on the improvements from the new owners. I know it takes time and money, but I’m sure they had a business plan when they bought the place. We can at least give them ample time to come through.
However, it’s rain season again, and our ‘roof’ started leaking in the office. After asking the landlord to make some *needed* repairs to the roof, the landlord tells us that we should foot the bill ourselves. Doesn’t seem right, does it? Okay, we can live with the current lights and the bathrooms for now. The walls are still standing, so those can wait too. But when it rains, we can’t use the ‘office’. We’ve paid our annual rent up-front, so we can’t withhold that… The facility’s ‘structural’ condition is the owner’s responsibility.
If we can’t finish the season due to poor field conditions, shouldn’t we demand a portion of our league fees back? What now?
Negotiation. They don’t want to go through the hassle of finding another tenant as dedicated to them as FOY. We don’t want to find another park. Why not present them with a reasonable compromise? The needed repairs are $3000. As a tenant, we will split the cost of the repair with the league, but as part of a renegotiated lease.
FOY will ask the church group to sign a four-year lease with the FOY league, transferable to any new ownership upon sale of the property. We will also ask for commitments to make the previously discussed repairs to lighting, fencing and other facilities by a mutually agreed-upon date. The dollar amounts for league fees will be set in the contract, as $600 per team. Upon completion of all repairs outlined in the contract, annual league fees will increase to $650 per team the following season. (This provides an incentive for the owners to complete the repairs in a timely manner, and isn’t going to break OUR banks either.)
In return- As a gesture of our dedication to playing in Cahokia, FOY will pay for $1350 toward the repair of the field out-of-pocket. FOY will also then finance the remaining $1650 to the league without interest. This will be payable by the owners as a credit toward next season’s league fees. This $1650 credit will be evenly divided by the teams that played this season. This leaves an individual team fee of about $417 next season, instead of the usual $600.
Even though we will use any ‘league funds’ we might have (from fundraisers or whatever) to pay for the repairs upfront, we will be getting it right back next season. And in the process, we can guarantee FOY baseball in Cahokia through 2013, or beyond.
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| duh
May 17, 2009
3:07:26 PM
Entry #: 3157915
| i agree with getting a 2nd estimate on fixing the field. dumb not to.
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| Captain
May 17, 2009
5:19:13 PM
Entry #: 3157990
| Played at 10 this morning on a killer college field with expert legion umps. Man, te MSBL sucks!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhA
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| BigSug
May 17, 2009
5:30:30 PM
Entry #: 3158004
| 9 Teams, $3000 = $333 per team - any money from the poker tournament will make it cheaper.
GET IT DONE MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND.
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| Bud25
May 17, 2009
6:55:53 PM
Entry #: 3158066
| 9 teams, $40 sodcutter= $4.44 per team, 30 cents per man. 9 teams, 2 guys from each team probably gives us too many guys. It can be done Memorial Day weekend.
ps. I can possibly get the sodcutter for free.
If any of you guys want to come over Memorial Day weekend, I'm having a pool party. Unfortunately, I only have a kiddie pool, but you can all buck up for a new inground pool. At least it will be the best.
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| BigSug
May 17, 2009
9:02:56 PM
Entry #: 3158187
| I would rather pay $25 to a professional to professionally fix our field instead of having people that don't know what they are doing make it worse for free.
Grading for drainage, moving home plate where it belongs, raising the dirt level, etc. Please realize that the field needs a professional overhaul instead of weekly / daily short term "fixes?".
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| Bud25
May 17, 2009
9:51:10 PM
Entry #: 3158234
| I would rather pay 25 bucks too, but you're not the one that has to collect it from 15 guys, I am and that's the difference.
If you think we make it worse every time we try to do something because we don't know what we're doing, how about coming out once to help us. Hell, you don't even have to help, you can supervise and tell us how to do it.
Moving home plate is easy. He isn't going to grade for drainage, he's going to use the grade that's already there at 1%. Half percent is what they said they usually want, and they are not going to raise the dirt level.
Believe me, you don't need to tell me what the field needs. I spent hours upon hours upon hours sweeping and draining water off the fucker last year so we could play the games. Apparently it made a difference.
You're right, it needs an overhaul, but why is it too much to ask for a commitment from them if we're willing to improve their field? Somebody explain that to me.
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| Adam Oquendo
May 17, 2009
10:50:26 PM
Entry #: 3158288
| We could start playing football on the field and then the rain would be irrelevant. Shit, we can even play in snow.
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| matt
May 18, 2009
12:04:31 AM
Entry #: 3158325
| at the rate we have been going. and at this point of the year, i dont care waht it cost to fix the field, lets do it. for real, be honest, who wants to work on this field during memorial day weekend? not me. but i do agree that this poker tourn. will not make enough moolah to cover the remaining cost. quit being crying ass pussys and lets get the field right. for all those i have offended, sorry im crocked.
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| lollipop kid
May 22, 2009
9:59:41 AM
Entry #: 3164111
| greetings, long time listener first time caller here. Not gonna throw gas on the fire for the field debate, just would like to point out that the forum isn't really "locked down" so perhaps we shouldn't be bashing the Church. Since a quick google search for "foy cahokia il" will put them 2 clicks away from reading about all our posts.
Personally i'm glad to be playing where we are and grateful for the chance. Which is why i'm not an msbl'er playing all over the metro east.
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| Bigpapi
May 22, 2009
2:05:42 PM
Entry #: 3164381
| Well said Lollipop Kid. I for one am looking forward to the changes taking place this weekend. Hopefully everything works out in the end. Gotta have faith.
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| Bulls #23
May 22, 2009
8:39:21 PM
Entry #: 3164713
| OK. I've pretty much said all I'm gonna say...
Just to address our anonymous friend about the church being able to read our forums. That's fine. Not a problem at all. They shouldn't have an issue recognizing that they did in fact tell us they were gonna do things that have yet to be done. Period. It's a fact.
They also, if they were to stumble upon our forum here, would hopefully see the passion that we have for the game and for the league. I think that's a good thing. And in the end, all any of us really want is to have a long-term working relationship that is beneficial and fair for both us and them.
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| pirates11
May 22, 2009
8:59:31 PM
Entry #: 3164719
| they really kicked ass on the field today.The best the field has ever been thats for sure.Our playground just got a whole lot nicer.Thanks Sarge for setting this up and getting it done.
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| Bulls #23
May 22, 2009
9:27:34 PM
Entry #: 3164731
| In the end - yes, thank you.
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| bigpap1
May 26, 2009
3:07:49 PM
Entry #: 3166941
| saw the field yesterday. the renovations look good. to bad mother nature had to dump a huge load on us again but that's the way it goes i guess. can't wait until sunday when we get our chance to play next. curley's, you're next!
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| randyfsb
May 28, 2009
12:17:48 PM
Entry #: 3169218
| thanks Sarge for getting the ball rolling. Any updates on the field? Hopefully our new sod wont float away.
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