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TOPIC: Infield Fly Rule |
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| Sam
June 23, 2009
12:52:48 PM
Entry #: 3195979
| I want to clear up some misconception with the Infield Fly Rule. Last night an umpire called a batter out due to infield fly rule even though the defender attempted to catch the ball and it landed in foul territory. I tried to explain to the ump that the batter was not out due to the ball landing in foul territory but he refused to budge and recognize his error.
I have been all over the internet this morning and have had it clarified on many web sites including MLB.com Here is a snippet I found:
Another point of confusion (and this is confusing) has to do with the ball being fair or foul. For example, you could have the umpire call out "Infield fly, batter is out.", and then not have the batter be out. How can that happen? The infield fly rule only applies to a fair ball. So let's say a pop up is hit down the third base line. The umpire makes his call and then the ball drifts into foul territory. Whether the ball is caught or not, the infield fly rule no longer applies. So, if the ball is dropped by the third baseman in foul territory, it's simply a foul ball and the batter is still up. In this case, umpires are taught to yell, "Infield fly if fair". The umpire may mistakenly make the first call and just because he called the batter out, doesn't mean he is out in this situation. The correct call is simply a foul ball.
If I am wrong, I will eat crow on this one...but this is the same way I have seen the rule interpreted on every website I have visited.
I would also like to ask about the rule of runners having to run BEHIND the plate at home plate when scoring. Again, last night, while covering home plate I had an opposing player bump me as I was in front of the plate waiting for the throw, and then another time, a runner blocked a throw home by running in front of the catcher and tagging the plate instead of the area behind the plate. The ball hit this player in the back, right in front of my catcher. I thought interference at home plate in either manner resulted in the runner being out since they did not run to behind the plate, which would protect both the runner and the catcher from injury.
Once again, the umpire would not budge when I asked him about it, so I just wanted to get a lil clarification.
And FYI, I am not ump bashing...they did a great job just being patient enough to let us play last night.
Thanks.
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| dtreidjr
June 23, 2009
1:05:44 PM
Entry #: 3196002
| You are correct. It should be an infield fly if the ball is fair, only.
The second part, there is no area behind home plate. There is only home plate. There has never been a league rule made for players to not touch home plate when coming home. I'm not saying what this rule is or is not, but the league has never and will never make a rule on what a runner should do when going home. I'd look into what the ASA rules are, but I think home plate is home plate and nothing else is.
But, it's the umpires call on what happened. I would call Roy Wise, he is the Umpire in Chief for the Umpire Association and he would have the right answer. His number is 203-6567. That is what he is here for, to answer these questions. Go over the situation with him and who the umpire was and he'll address it.
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| Sam
June 23, 2009
2:06:08 PM
Entry #: 3196095
| Thanks for the answer Dan. Here is a little history of that plate rule:
In Co-ed, the last year and a half I would say, at the Coed meetings, we were instructed to tell our players to run behind the plate and touch the area that is the strike zone, to avoid collisions at home plate. We were also told that the catcher has to stand at the very front of home plate for plays at the plate or he would be guilty of interference and the runner would be called safe no matter what...and that the runner would be called out if they interfered with and especially made contact w the catcher, no matter what.
This rule was made as a direct result of me, (and maybe others), running into catchers during a play at the plate...(unintentionally I promise).
It's okay, I dont mind the rule either way it is set up...I just wanted clarification so I would know whether to "argue" the call or not.
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| dwightkschrute
June 23, 2009
2:52:53 PM
Entry #: 3196168
| You do realize that this is just slow-pitch softball and not the major leagues or the minor leagues. It's not even the highest level of softball. We are playing softball in Marion, IL, for crying out loud. So you can stop complaining and on top of it you won the game so what's the problem.
I have come to see that some of you guys in this league take this stuff way to seriously. I have played high school baseball and even semi-pro ball not to mention having played slow-pitch in Marion since I was 17 (I am now 28). And I have seen players and coaches get hot under the collar about calls before in semi-pro and high school baseball and probably rightfully so but you guys that get worked up in MARION, IL SLOW-PITCH SOFTBALL, just crack me up. It's even funnier now then when I was a teenager and saw it for the first time. I was amazed at the childishness of it. Just hilarious.
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| fischer
June 23, 2009
3:05:58 PM
Entry #: 3196188
| If I am the one out there playing, I just want the umpire to get it right. I don't care if it is just slow-pitch, and I don't care if the ump has to ask another ump what the ruling is. Just get it right. Everyone out there just wants the right call. It's different if he calls a guy out or safe, that's a judgement call. When it comes to the rules, Hell yeah the ump needs to get it right. I don't care where you are playing!!I don't think anyone considers themselves Major Leagers. We pay a lot of money, and when it comes to the rules of the game, get it right.
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| Sam
June 23, 2009
4:12:57 PM
Entry #: 3196295
| I agree Fischer, and I thought I made it clear that I was not complaining, and I even praised the umps in my games. And yes, we did win, but what if next time, that was the call that would make us lose? I just wanted clarification. I am not bashing anyone, least of all the umpires or the team that we played, who played us very well. I realize it is just a game, and maybe I do get upset when a call, or several calls seem not to go my way, but I dont act out of control. I try to always be respectful when I question an umpire...and just get clarity...and sometimes, they even realize it or maybe ask the other ump for their opinion.
Nobody likes to lose. Softball...or tiddly winks.
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| Jason
June 23, 2009
5:31:11 PM
Entry #: 3196395
| Dwight,
Some guys like a game called correctly thats all. Did you really need to post on here just to run alot of guys down and let everyone know how much of an adult and high and mighty you are. If people say and do things that bother you, just ignore them, no use in getting all worked up about it.
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| dtreidjr
June 23, 2009
9:35:33 PM
Entry #: 3196622
| Yeah, ideally the catcher should be on the front of the plate. Just like how first base would be if there were not an orange base there.
I would seriously call Ray Wise and ask him for rulings and have him address it with the umpire/s. It needs to be done and they need to be completely aware of the rule.
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| Tyler King
June 24, 2009
8:37:25 AM
Entry #: 3196934
| The actual call on that play would be "infeild fly if fair!" Thats the way it should be stated!
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| Jrivett
June 24, 2009
11:45:33 AM
Entry #: 3197196
| Just to clarify the first baseman was standing in fair territory and the ball bounced off of their glove into foul territory. If this not correct so be it. I stand corrected.
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| Jay
June 24, 2009
11:56:22 AM
Entry #: 3197214
| ^^ if thats what happened then the call was correct
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| J rivett
June 24, 2009
1:11:53 PM
Entry #: 3197321
| Just to add to the earlier post. I tried to explain this to Sam, that since the first baseman was in fair territory it would be a infield fly. If the first baseman had been in foul territory it would not be an infield fly rule.
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| Jason
June 24, 2009
2:01:54 PM
Entry #: 3197388
| The asa rule book states that it doesnt matter where the player is that makes contact it only matters where the ball is, so therefore the ball is foul. I know this seems incorrect, I always thought if a player is in fair territory that it did not matter where the ball was, it was a fair ball. I am at work now I will post what rule number it is in the asa rule book later tonight when i get home.
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| Jason
June 24, 2009
2:05:45 PM
Entry #: 3197392
| http://www.asasoftball.com/communications/getStory.asp?nid=109
try this web page, you will need to copy and paste into your address bar.
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| dtreidjr
June 24, 2009
2:37:38 PM
Entry #: 3197439
| I think what Rivett is saying that the player and ball were fair, then it went foul after hitting his glove.
But like Tyler said "Infield fly if fair" is what I've always heard.
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| Jason
June 24, 2009
3:06:28 PM
Entry #: 3197472
| My mistake, I misunderstood.
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| Sam
June 25, 2009
8:25:44 AM
Entry #: 3198143
| Either way...and this is how the rules are stated...if the ball lands foul...it is foul. I have no ill will towards anyone on the play. Just wanted to know for the future.
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| Sam
June 25, 2009
8:49:13 AM
Entry #: 3198175
| Direct quote from the ASA rule book:
"A batted ball shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time the fielder touches the ball."
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| Sam
June 25, 2009
8:52:43 AM
Entry #: 3198182
| FYI, on the same ASA rule book website address that Jason listed earlier, it goes over the home plate dilemna that I brought up too, and states it pretty much the same way that Co-Ed league has been telling us the last couple years...however it also says that this "rule" is for Senior Softball leagues. So like I said, I can take it or leave it.
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| dtreidjr
June 25, 2009
11:13:52 AM
Entry #: 3198326
| Sam, I believe the quote is right, but that doesn't address your question. Jason Rivett (Jason Kelton is the other "Jason" who's commented in this thread also) said that the ball was fair before the player touched it. I spoke to him last night about it. The ball was in fair territory before it hit the players glove and landed foul. That would make it a fair ball.
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| Jay
June 25, 2009
12:33:03 PM
Entry #: 3198434
| Okay after all this here are you ASA rulings you looking for with some explainations as well.
On any ball hit it being fair or foul is determined by where it would land not where it is touched by a fielder. An fair over ran ball at the line could actually be touched by a fielder in foul territory and land foul it is still a fair ball. Once touched it doesn't matter where it lands, this prevents things like long sac flies being knocked over the lines for foul balls by fielders. So if the infield fly would have landed fair without it being touched its fair, if it would have landed foul without being touched its foul.
For home plate, the ASA rule book actually states that a fielder cannot block any bag including home without possession of the ball if there is contact and the catcher doesn't have the ball that would mean some part of his body was blocking the bag and obstruction on the fielder could be called and the runner would be safe, so after the contact legally the runner could miss touching home plate and still be safe.
There is no rule for not touching home plate other than senior ball, and that is only if there is a safety plate like the safety bag at first and the plate is not directly behind the plate its several feet away at I believe a 45 degree angle backwards from home.
Any local rule will supersede these rules and make them obsolete. So if the league decided to do anything differently than the ASA on any rule at all then that would be the correct ruling not what the ASA rule book says. So if there is a local rule about home, Sam you would be correct then but its not looking like they do.
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| Sam
June 25, 2009
2:37:39 PM
Entry #: 3198595
| Okay...Well thanks to all for the input. Like I said, I was just looking for clarification for next time. That is good to know, because the way I read a lot of things, it made it sound like it would be a foul ball...however, now I know.
Jason, (Umpire), I hope you dont mind me seeking another opinion just so I can be clear. Turns out you were right afterall. Thanks for letting us play that night!
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| an ump
June 28, 2009
9:03:24 PM
Entry #: 3200852
| Runner on first and second or bases loaded with less than 2 outs....infield fly rule called if it can be handled with reasonable effort!
If it drops between 2 fielders not close to catchin it...no infield fly!
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| ump2
July 10, 2009
6:30:19 PM
Entry #: 3211699
| gezzzzzzzzzzzz
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