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TOPIC: Blessing in Disguise |
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| Brill15
July 5, 2009
8:51:58 PM
Entry #: 3206523
| The more I think about the loss today the more I think it may be a good thing. Of course we would have all preferred to win but this is the kind of thing we need. We haven't been playing top notch ball all year and losing today despite chances to win will hopefully stick with us all and make each guy work a little harder and step their game up. I'm excited for the rest of the year boys, I think it's going to be great.
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| Moose
July 6, 2009
11:39:42 AM
Entry #: 3206933
| Well, that is certainly a "glass half full" view on things. That being said, I think you're right.
Winning a game while not playing our best tends to cover things up. Only once you lose a game while not playing your best do you focus on doing the work that needs to get done in order to play better.
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| 3
July 6, 2009
1:05:27 PM
Entry #: 3207024
| Let me tell you something about disguise.
Dis guise not very happy with the way he played yesterday.
Dis guise thinking that we need to practice our happy asses off and get better.
Dis guise not happy with the lack of confidence we have in our hitting.
Dis guise in agreement with KG that we need to take 5000 grounders at practice.
Dis guise thinking that the Noid needs to drink more beer.
Dis guise thinking that the knob steered us in the wrong direction.
Dis guise not happy that some people seemed ok with losing yesterday.
Lets move forward and not lose again. I hope that we all think about what each one of us could have done differently and do it right the next chance we get. Hopefully this makes us all uncomfortable. We need to be a little uncomfortable,a little on edge, a little chip on our shoulder. Or a big chip in my case, or a whole bag of freakin chips. Lets do better, anyone who can make it to practice on Wednesday should.
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| Brill15
July 6, 2009
1:48:17 PM
Entry #: 3207072
| I hope people don't think that I'm not upset about yesterday's loss, I assure you I am. And I agree with a vast majority of what Frankie is saying, we do need to get a little pissed if getting pissed is what helps you play better. Regardless of if you are pissed, inspired, hopeful, or whatever, I think we all need to do some work on our games.
I would caution that while we need to take practice more seriously and have a sharper focus in games, in the past we have not played well mad or super serious. We need to keep in mind that we play our best when we're relaxed, having fun, and focused. Let's not mistake focus for anger. I'm impressed by players with focus and tenacity to win, but being pissed and on edge may not get us where we want to go.
I'm not saying Frank is advocating us playing mad and not having fun, cause I doubt he is. I'm just saying that as we use this loss and frustration to better our game, we need to keep in mind that a game won without enjoyment isn't a real victory either.
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| 3
July 6, 2009
4:10:00 PM
Entry #: 3207232
| I was not writing that in anger, it was more of a joke (in some spots) than anything. I am frustrated at the fact that we rarely put confidence in ALL of our hitters. No offense to our staff, but against good teams we need to score more runs. Even when we play well we are going to give up 3 or 4 runs per game, when we play for one run an inning we wind up scoring 4 or 5 generally against good teams. That puts us in really close games that may not have to be that close. This is my opinion and I think that most of the guys on the team disagree, but sometimes it is worth going for a "big" inning or a crooked number. I really want to hear the guys feedback on this, it may not change but I think for this team to be successful, especially against teams like the Haugens and others at the state tourney, we have to score more than 4 or 5 in a game. And we have the potential to do it, without Todd's speed and stick our team changes, and we have to adapt to the change. We are relying on a lot of two out hits, the way I see it, and two out hits are hard to come by. I think we have a great small ball style, but I also think that it needs to be mixed in with a different offensive attack at times. If we don't give people the chance to gain confidence now, those same people will not have it when it really counts. I hope I don't offend anybody by saying this but it is something that I strongly believe.
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| Brill15
July 6, 2009
5:16:16 PM
Entry #: 3207305
| Can i just say I love how much attention our site gets! In one day we have a thread that's been viewed over 135 times, I bet it will reach 150 before tomorrow morning.
On Frank's point, I do want to weigh in, but I need a bit of time to structure my opinion. The gist of it will be that I don't necessarily agree with playing for the big inning and actually would advocate more small-ball but with better execution and an increased focus on aggressive base running
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| Moose
July 6, 2009
6:30:58 PM
Entry #: 3207370
| Kirby-all of these views don't count when you check it every 10 minutes!!
Frank-I think that there is a time and place to play for a big inning. I also believe that some of our biggest innings started out in the small ball mold and it manifested itself into a big inning. I hold firm to the notion that if we play for 1 run every inning and are successful (I know we aren't ALWAYS successful) we end up scoring 9 runs. I think we all agree that 9 runs/game + our pitching + our defense = victory. Not every bunt becomes an out. The key to it all is just what Kirby said - execution.
Small ball in my opinion is about putting pressure on the opposing defense. Sometimes just the threat of doing something is pressure enough.
That being said, if I could mash with the big boys, or run fast, or hit for a high average I would love to just hack each and every time up. I can't or am not, so I just like to be able to feel like I contributed offensively once in a while by making a productive out.
The biggest problem that I have with continually playing for big innings is that it seems like you are always waiting for something to happen instead of making something happen, and a lot of times it still comes down to getting the big 2 out hit. I can't think of the last time we got shut out (Augusta, game 1 of 2002 state finals comes to mind). I've seen more than a few teams play for big innings all the time and end up getting shut out.
Just my dollars worth. See you Wednesday.
I'll bring the box, bitches!!
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| 3
July 6, 2009
7:42:00 PM
Entry #: 3207415
| I think you are right in a lot of what you say. Maybe it is just that we are lacking the killer instinct, we have had that problem before. The good news is we have more games to figure IT out, whatever IT is.
I want to say that being uncomfortable does not mean being unsure or scared, it is just knowing that any team can beat us at any time. St Croix is probably going through the same feeling that we are right now. Who will respond?
I dont think that anybody on the team expected to lose this weekend. Probably nobody in the league expected us to lose, other than the Hornets. We need to regain that scrappiness we had before. We still dont give up but we are not scratching and clawing to prove anything either. Lets not be mistaken, there is a lot to prove.
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| Moose
July 7, 2009
6:34:12 AM
Entry #: 3207695
| Like you said before Frank, we have to regain that edge, that hunger, the chip on our shoulder. The desire to prove ourselves every week.
Call it the Eye of the Tiger.
Yes, I did go there!
Geez, if Kirby hasn't responded yet, he must be putting together a 20 page essay. That should be interesting...
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| Brill15
July 7, 2009
8:35:30 AM
Entry #: 3207774
| Sorry for the delay, I was busy last night grocery shopping and cooking. As for my take on how we play the game....
I think a team has to have a unified theory of defense, pitching, and offense. If we are a small ball team we need to have extremely sound defense and pitching that utilizes that defense to its full potential and doesn't walk hitters.
If we are doing the right things with pitching and defense then scoring 5 or 6 runs is a blowout. We used to have a lot of games where we only gave up 1 or 2 runs and we were scoring our 4,5,or 6, and every once in a while we'd score 10 and really blow a team out.
I don't think that having guys bunt is not trusting them or taking the bat out of their hands, I think it's putting faith in the guy behind them. In some situations a bunt isn't just a sacrifice either, it's working for 1 run and giving them the chance to give us more. When Mike Jensen bunted with one out it was to move a guy into scoring position to give me a chance to drive him in, but it also gave them a chance to mess up. Mike is a great bunter and hasn't been getting a ton of non-bunt base hits this year, and I happen to be hitting fairly well this year, so that's not a bad call.
I think the biggest thing we need to focus on is picking a unified theory of play and really committing to it. If we're a small ball team who is going to score our guaranteed 3 or 4 runs a game, and maybe tack on a couple more in good times, then we need to have the defense and pitching to back that up. That doesn't mean our starters have to start striking 14 guys out per game, it means that they need to pitch to contact and not walk guys. But for them to have the confidence to go after anyone, they need to know their defense will back them up, which it hasn't fully this year, and I'm just a big a contributor in errors as anyone else so don't take this as me pointing fingers.
As for the validity of small ball vs. big inning play, I will always pick small ball. I would much rather know that we will score 4 runs every game than be a team that averages 4 runs by scoring 0 or 1 some weeks and 10 some weeks. We have a fairly predictable offense and it's really not short on runs, so I don't think offense is where we need to be working on changing things too much. Even when you take the Siren game out, we are averaging 7.63 runs per game in league games, which is pretty dang good for a "small ball" team.
Our offense has gotten a lot better over the past few years, yet we're in more close games now. Part of this is due to the improved competition in the league, but part of it is that we're walking more guys, making more errors, and not shutting teams down like we used to.
So in conclusion, I stand on the side of small-ball, I feel playing for a big inning is gambling unnecessarily, and I think the key to our success is less walks and more sound defense. Also I agree with Chris' argument this weekend that we need to have guys bunting right away and all the way through the third strike in most situations.
So let's practice defense, practice bunting, think about the situation when hitting, and pitch to contact. GO MILLERS
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| 46
July 7, 2009
9:17:38 AM
Entry #: 3207831
| I haven't even read past the 1st line Kirby, but grocery shopping and cooking?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!
Come on!!!
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| Brill15
July 7, 2009
9:29:34 AM
Entry #: 3207842
| Are you upset that I wrote that, or upset that I didn't include watching reality TV with you on the list of things I was doing last night?
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| 46
July 7, 2009
9:30:56 AM
Entry #: 3207845
| I respectfully disagree. I don't think bunting every inning is the way to play baseball.
(Disclaimer: I know we're not big league teams)
How often do you see an MLB team bunt EVERY inning? Answer: Never.
I think you need to play to hit the ball. For instance, this past weekend (listen to our podcast) everyone went up to the plate looking to get a hit. Our team works the count and has good at bats, first 3 innings we put up 2 runs each. We weren't playing small ball. End result of the game, we won 8-0. Did we have bunt situations when we were up 6-0 or 7-0, yes, but we already had a decent enough lead that we could go to the plate swinging.
I think to win ball games players need to be swinging for hits, there's no reason to give up outs when you don't need to.
Of course there are bunt situations that should be taken advantage of, but my point is that when you're down 1-2 there's no reason for it.
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| 46
July 7, 2009
9:34:57 AM
Entry #: 3207849
| That's down 1-2 in the count, not the game...
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| Brill15
July 7, 2009
9:53:29 AM
Entry #: 3207871
| Let's clear something up, I'm not advocating bunting every inning or bunting when up by 7 runs, nothing even close.
There are only a few innings in a game anyway when the leadoff hitter gets on, which is usually the best situation to bunt. If we have one out and a guy gets a hit and Ben's up, I'm not advocating a bunt. I'm saying that when given the opportunity with a runner on first, and sometimes even second, with no outs, you have to do whatever you can to get the runs that the other team is giving you an opportunity for.
Secondly, invoking any comparison to pro ball is ludicrous. In a sloppy pro game there are maybe 4 errors combined. In an average game for our league there are probably 3-5 errors and sloppy games there are 5 or 6 errors per team. Putting the ball in play and letting the other team mess up is a legitimate strategy in this league.
I think the best course of action is to fix the defense and pitching and get it back to where it was and where we know it can be again, rather than try to add on more offense which is largely out of our control.
There is a myth that we're not scoring runs and I don't know where that started, because we're scoring more runs than we ever have. Our worst league game we scored 3 runs, and we won that game. With better pitching and defense, our current average runs (~7.5) should be more than enough to win games. If we're planning on teams scoring 8 or more runs a game, then we're in trouble. We would be scoring even more runs if we were executing our strategy properly. I can see Derc's argument having more legitimacy if we were only scoring 2-3 runs per game, but we're not. Run production is not our biggest concern in my opinion, not even close
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| Brill15
July 7, 2009
9:57:33 AM
Entry #: 3207878
| As for bunting on a 1-2 count, that's completely situational, if it's necessary that guy gets down to second and you're not hitting the ball well that day or you know you can get it down, then I say you do it. There are actually quite a few times this happens in pro ball, if we want to go down the road of comparing indy league to pro ball.
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| 46
July 7, 2009
10:12:35 AM
Entry #: 3207897
| ludicrous? I think you mean Ludacris... as in Christopher Bridges as in "Just bought a new pair and the scuffed your shoes, whach ya gon do? ACT A FOOL!"
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| Brill15
July 7, 2009
10:14:32 AM
Entry #: 3207902
| The funny thing is I actually spelled it ludacris the first time and only changed it because of spell check telling me it was wrong.
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| 3
July 7, 2009
11:01:20 AM
Entry #: 3207939
| I agree with you Kirby as long as we are playing good defense and pitching to contact. I think that you also have to weigh in the fact that making first pitch outs with bunts leaves the other teams best pitcher in for the whole game sometimes.
I know that we are scoring runs against mediocre teams, but that doesn't happen against the best teams in the biggest games. And as I said before, if people aren't in the situation to get the hits, when we need the hit after hit, it probably won't happen. If we get back to errorless ball and 3 BB/game this issue is not important. But if we don't I think it is.
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| Brill15
July 7, 2009
11:09:53 AM
Entry #: 3207948
| I really think we're all in fairly close agreement on this issue, it's just a matter of how we should approach it. I think we all recognize that low or no walk pitching + great defense + proper small ball execution should = wins.
There are slightly broken elements of all 3 of the pieces to the equation and we need to decide if we want to keep the same formula and fix the pieces, or assume that some of the pieces will never be there and go with a different formula. If we expect mediocre defense and a fair amount of walks each game we are going to have to go for some big innings.
I personally think we can fix all the elements and keep the same formula. I think we know that we can win in that way and I'd rather try to recapture a proven formula than go and try a new formula we've never used and aren't sure if it will work.
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| Deluxe
July 7, 2009
12:47:07 PM
Entry #: 3208072
| What's with all this equation garbage?
This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains.
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| Moose
July 7, 2009
2:32:20 PM
Entry #: 3208220
| And when it rains, we all drink beer together!
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| Moose
July 7, 2009
2:41:49 PM
Entry #: 3208228
| Okay, I'm a small ball guy as well. So take this for what it's worth.
I believe that when we are facing top tier competition, they usually have some pretty good pitching to go along with it. They also usually will play pretty good defense. I don't know of any team that when they match up against a really good pitcher feel that they simply figure on slugging out 7 or 8 runs in a game-Indy League or otherwise.
So the question may be "which came first-the chicken or the egg?" Do we not score as many runs because we give up too many outs playing small ball, or is it because we came up against a really good pitcher that was at least on that day capable of shutting us down. Case in point-Eau Claire in the 2nd game of the finals. I don't believe we bunted more than once in that game, yet only scored 1 run. We didn't play the small ball, but ran up against a pitcher that shut us down.
I say we hit ball, run fast. Or in my case, run as hard as you can.
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| 3
July 7, 2009
5:49:06 PM
Entry #: 3208505
| Let me tell you about chickens and eggs...
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| 27
July 7, 2009
9:49:58 PM
Entry #: 3208683
| don't you people have jobs?
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| Brill15
July 8, 2009
8:16:41 AM
Entry #: 3208899
| This is more important than work!
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| 3
July 8, 2009
3:29:57 PM
Entry #: 3209462
| 310 views in 3 days. hahaha, that is funny.
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| 46
July 9, 2009
12:25:46 PM
Entry #: 3210358
| 196 of those are kirby, 100 are means the rest are the other 6 people, (me included) that look.
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| Brill15
July 9, 2009
12:31:41 PM
Entry #: 3210366
| i don't open the thread unless i see a new post, so the additional looks aren't me
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| 3
July 9, 2009
4:29:39 PM
Entry #: 3210646
| Dont hate me cause you aint me...bitches
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| uno uno
July 10, 2009
9:33:40 PM
Entry #: 3211791
| i disagree with losing. ever. it's the lamest thing ever. in my opinion losing never helps. winning all the time is the only thing that matters. i hate losing. i don't plan on losing the rest of the season. bomb.
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| RJ
July 12, 2009
11:51:42 AM
Entry #: 3212397
| "Blessing in disguise"....are you kidding me Kirby?! Anyone who refers to their team's loss as a blessing should be demoted to waterboy. Your big words and long drawn out analysis doesn't change the fact that ya lost. So instead of sitting here and getting all philosophical on everybody about losing maybe you should do something a little more constructive with your time....go practice bunting.
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| 3
July 13, 2009
9:55:12 AM
Entry #: 3213089
| I would focus more on your big rivalry with STANBERRY!!!!!
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| KM
July 13, 2009
3:41:54 PM
Entry #: 3213574
| I don't think that was actually "RJ". He doesn't even have internet... And he never calls himself "RJ". Just so you know, Frank
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| 3
July 13, 2009
4:00:55 PM
Entry #: 3213599
| OK
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| Brill15
July 13, 2009
4:11:01 PM
Entry #: 3213612
| It wasn't RJ. It was "uno uno" I believe that's Mau right?
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| Brill15
July 13, 2009
4:14:01 PM
Entry #: 3213617
| And Mau, or RJ, or uno uno, or whatever you'd like to call yourself, I'll try to keep my analysis shorter in the future, I know how hard it is for you to read.
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| Grammar Gary
July 13, 2009
4:19:01 PM
Entry #: 3213625
| And be sure to use all monosyllabic words. Monosyllabic words have one syllable. But the word monosyllabic has 5......interesting.
And by the way, who was the cruel human being who put the letter "s" in the word lisp.
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| 3
July 13, 2009
4:24:46 PM
Entry #: 3213640
| Oh, Maui you are one of a kind. I do expect you to lose this year... but it will probably be another job... hahahahaha sucka
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| uno uno
July 14, 2009
8:15:57 AM
Entry #: 3214241
| hahaha suck it frankie. and no kirb, it wasn't me... i'da owned up to it. and i wouldn't LOSE my job frank, i'd quit before they could fire me!! duh.
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| Brill15
July 14, 2009
8:29:20 AM
Entry #: 3214260
| Either someone is using your computer then or the site messed up because you have the same IP address as "RJ". I could be the infamous "Danny" poster from a while ago who apparently knows how to manipulate such info.
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| 46
July 14, 2009
8:54:32 AM
Entry #: 3214294
| Is this thread really still going?
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| 3
July 14, 2009
12:25:40 PM
Entry #: 3214672
| Are you mad because nobody goes to your site?
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| Deluxe
July 14, 2009
12:54:52 PM
Entry #: 3214708
| We get plenty of site traffic. We just have more efficient ways of communicating with each other, like using cell phones to make text messages and phone calls. We don't use our message board as our primary communication forum.
However, if Mikey J prefers communicating in the wee hours of the morning, you guys probably appreciate him using this method.
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| 46
July 14, 2009
3:42:19 PM
Entry #: 3214966
| Deluxe said it. And the 7 of you checking it every 15 minutes helps your traffic numbers.
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| Brill15
July 14, 2009
4:46:04 PM
Entry #: 3215030
| We enjoy public discussion, and txting and calling don't work so well when you're attempting to communicate to multiple people at once. So I would say for the purposes we use it for, this is the most efficient manner of communication. Or would it be more efficient for me to call each member of the team and have a discussion about how we should move forward from a loss and approach the next game?
Also, if we did communicate outside the website, how would you guys get to weigh in and talk trash?
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| uno uno
July 15, 2009
12:01:23 AM
Entry #: 3215459
| yeah its mau again.... what of it. kirby.. most cell phones now a days have a multiple text option..... you dont just have to text one at a time lol just a heads up. and we are the knights...... we kinda grew up as in we dont get shit plowed before every single sunday game (the only reason you beat us last year, alcohol) thats why we are 13-0. we are mashing. we are pitching. we are playing defense. we fucking rule. what up
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| Brill15
July 15, 2009
8:07:13 AM
Entry #: 3215610
| 1. I don't think that was Mau
2. Sending a text to multiple people doesn't allow simultaneous discussion between all recipients
3. I don't recall saying you guys weren't good, that you drank before every game, or that you couldn't' hit, play defense, or pitch
4. It makes you look kinda sad when you make excuses for why you lost, funny how every time you beat us its because you outplayed us, every time you lose its not because you got outplayed but some other factor. Own your losses, be a man.
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| 46
July 15, 2009
9:36:16 AM
Entry #: 3215725
| If you didn't think that was actually Mau then why take the shot in #4?
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| Deluxe
July 15, 2009
9:36:31 AM
Entry #: 3215727
| Mau, if that was you, you have a big mouth. Good for a variety of things.
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| Brill15
July 15, 2009
9:53:53 AM
Entry #: 3215755
| 1. It could have been Mau, and in case it was, i wanted to make the point.
2. As a general message to those who make excuses for their loses
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| 3
July 15, 2009
10:10:17 AM
Entry #: 3215770
| Word to the wise... dont get s*&$ plowed and then make an ass out of yourself on the web!! Keep talking Maui, it will come back and bite you in the butt. That was absolutely Mau, probably after donking off a couple hundred on Pokerstars so he went on tilt and decided the only ones he could talk smack to was us!!! Next time just bring your money to my house sucka
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| uno uno
July 15, 2009
1:50:55 PM
Entry #: 3216099
| ridiculous. that's all i'm sayin'.
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| RJ
July 16, 2009
11:03:59 PM
Entry #: 3217806
| hahaha. you poor kids. I got ya all riled up and acting like idiots. How bout ya just save all your energy for the game next Sunday? I'd say that my money's on the Knights...but Kirbys bunt is pretty threatening so we'll see.
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| Brill15
July 17, 2009
11:16:15 AM
Entry #: 3218149
| I wish the game were in Brill, with a park that small I could just bunt one over the fence
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July 17, 2009
5:09:29 PM
Entry #: 3218525
| Dear Kirby,
On the rare occasion that you actually do hit the ball, I look forward to seeing who's glove it lands in.
Love RJ
P.S. Your freckles are pretty
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