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TOPIC: Tournament Aftermath (umpires are not infallible) |
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
August 26, 2009
11:40:57 AM
Entry #: 3257073
| Thanks every one for yet another fun tournament to end the season. I particularly appreciate the efforts of the umpires (especially the three EDSUA umpires that officiated all day on Saturday). Yet despite their efforts, it's important to realise that they aren't infallible (and neither am I). So I'm starting this thread to encourage people to respond with questions about particular plays that happened and the rulings that were enforced. . . but please note that all such discussion has an important caveat: we only see it from our viewpoint, and we may not know exactly what the umpire saw or didn't see. In other words, we don't necessarily have all the information, and we need to keep that in mind. But such discussion is still useful in clarifying the rules and their proper application. I'll try to cite the relevant rules from the 2009-2010 edition of the Softball Canada rule book.
That said, I'll bring up a couple things that happened.
Case 1) Jewellery
A player from one team mentioned that they had a player called out for entering the batter's box with jewellery. Note that there is no rules basis for such a penalty, but also note that I warned against this possibility in the "tournament tips" thread. Our league has no house rule about jewellery, so the Softball Canada rule applies. That rule is as follows:
[begin quote]
RULE 3. EQUIPMENT
Sec. 10 JEWELLERY
a. Exposed jewellery such as wristwatches, bracelets, any type of earrings, neck chains, or any other item judged dangerous by the umpire, may not be worn during the game.
b. Medical alert bracelets or necklaces are not considered jewellery.
EFFECT - Sec. 10. If a player is requested by the umpire to remove jewellery and they refuse, the player will be removed from the game and ruled ineligible.
[end quote]
Note that no mention is made of calling an out. The umpire can only require the player to remove their jewellery, and if they refuse, the maximum penalty is to remove the player from the game. Note that this is not the same as an ejection as clarified in Rule 10 Section 9 Effect 4:
[begin quote]
A player REMOVED from the game may sit on the bench but shall not participate further in the game except as a coach.
[end quote]
Where the confusion comes from is that several leagues routinely officiated by the EDSUA do have house rules in which players are automatically called out if they enter the batter's box wearing jewellery. But that is not our rule, and it would be appropriate to formally protest such a ruling in our tournament.
Case 2) Fair or foul?
In our D-division final, we were on defense when the following play happened. With multiple runners on base, the batter hit a long fly ball down the third-base line. Our left-fielder made a good run to try for the catch, but he couldn't hang on to it. When he touched the fly ball, his feet were both in fair territory, but it appeared that he reached into foul territory to touch the ball. The umpire ruled the ball fair, and it wound up being a double.
I didn't say anything to the umpire because I wasn't on the line to see what he saw. I knew it was close, but I couldn't be sure. Our left-fielder, on the other hand, questioned why it wasn't ruled foul. The umpire simply said that it went off his glove.
At this point I should have asked for further clarification because it sounded like he ruled it fair because although the ball was over foul territory, it was touched by the fielder who was in fair territory. If the umpire had clarified that this was the basis of his ruling, then I could have protested because that was incorrect by rule as confirmed by the notes under the definitions for a fair ball (rule 1 section 26) and foul ball (rule 1 section 33).
From rule 1-26:
[begin quote]
A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time of touching the ball.
[end quote]
And from rule 1-33:
[begin quote]
A foul fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time of touching the ball.
[end quote]
So it seems that this may have been ruled on incorrectly, but I cannot say for sure because I didn't do what I should have done. And that is to ask for clarification on why it was ruled the way it was. The purpose of this is to have the umpire explain what they saw, and if it comes down to personal judgement (i.e. whether the ball was over fair or foul territory when touched), then there is nothing to protest. But if it comes down to a rules misapplication, then it can (and probably should) be protested.
Are there other cases that people want to discuss?
Personally, I'd like to hear about a particular play that was described to me by a spectator, but I don't want to discuss it without first hearing from people involved in it. The play I'm referring to happened in the Saturday 5:00 game on diamond #2 between Capilano White Sox and Havoc. This play resulted in 3 outs, but from what was described to me, there were potentially 2 rules misapplications made.
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
February 23, 2010
8:56:02 AM
Entry #: 3398852
| I ended my last post with a concern about a triple play in a game between the White Sox and Havoc. This is old now, but I thought I should clarify that I did discuss the play with Havoc's captain, and based on his description, it sounds like the umpire made the correct rulings. So unless the other team saw it differently, it was ruled correctly.
With the nice weather, thoughts of ball begin to stir. . .
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
August 3, 2010
11:08:53 AM
Entry #: 3542312
| As our year-end tournament approaches, I thought I'd bump this thread as a reminder for teams about how to deal with apparent misapplications of playing rules. Note that although the umpires we get are carded, they officiate for many different leagues that operate under different rules bodies as well as different house rules. That can make it difficult to keep things straight.
If you have a situation where you think the umpire ruled incorrectly, your captain (i.e. one team representative) has the right to respectfully ask for clarification. So long as you are cordial, the umpire should be willing to hear you and explain their ruling. If it comes down to personal judgement, then simply move on no matter how much you may disagree. But if it comes down to a misapplication or misinterpretation of a playing rule, then your captain is entitled to protest that.
Ideally, it should be worked out immediately on the field. Do NOT bring out a rulebook without first asking the umpire! That may get you ejected for showing him/her up (and note that they'd be right to dump you for this). Simply ask him/her to consult the Softball Canada rulebook and our house rules in order to get it right. And be open to the possibility that you might be wrong.
That said, I'll mention the jewellery rule again. Note that the EDSUA is under Softball Canada, but they officiate under many leagues that operate under Slo-Pitch National (SPN) because they have lower insurance rates. Under SPN, it is an automatic out if a batter enters the batter's box wearing jewellery. But under Softball Canada, it is not (see the rules citation in my first post). Last year, there was at least one case where the auto-out was ruled in our tournament.
You should be aware of this rule. Even better, avoid possible rules misapplication by having your players leave their jewellery at home. This is a ball tournament, not a fashion show. For their own safety and the safety of others, they shouldn't be wearing jewellery while playing.
HINT: If you are wearing jewellery and don't want to take it off, then cover it up with opaque tape. Note that the rule explicitly prohibits exposed jewellery, so by covering it up, it's no longer exposed. EDSUA umpires are told by the association not to go looking under tape. This may seem like a circumvention of the rules to some extent, it is, but at least it minimizes the possibility of such jewellery from getting snagged on something (like a fielders glove during a tag attempt) and getting torn off.
Still, the best solution is to leave the jewellery at home where it won't get lost or damaged or hurt anyone.
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| Adam
August 23, 2010
9:03:41 AM
Entry #: 3557591
| The Play i saw was when i was watching the Nazarene Vs Beulah on sunday morning. The up was calling the Plate a strike. Also when our team was playing Calvary he was doing the same until he was questioned on if the plate was a strike or a ball. He also when we here playing calvary Called a guy safe when he clearly put up his are as a out.
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| storm
August 23, 2010
2:01:46 PM
Entry #: 3557870
| Question re: one of our games. I threw the ball from 2nd.. bad throw on my part and it went over first base. The other team had a player sitting on the edge of the dugout and caught the ball. It was ruled that it was out of play and they all got an extra base. How is that even possible if the person that caught the ball was sitting in front of a wall and nothing else in our previous 5 games were considered out of play? Just curious.
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
August 23, 2010
2:24:15 PM
Entry #: 3557889
| I did hear about one umpire that seemed to be calling strikes for pitched balls that hit the plate. The only way to clear that up is to ask for clarification of why it was ruled a strike, and if he explains the rule incorrectly, then ask him to consult our league rules to get the correct ruling.
Each umpire was given a document pack including the rules, but the one I saw was more complex than it needed to be in addition to our house rules that differed from Softball Canada plus the tournament rules, it also contained our league bylaws, rules clarifications (no difference from Softball Canada), game schedules, everything. This makes it more difficult to find our house rules amongst all that paper. Note also that some leagues officiated by EDSUA do have house rules that include the plate for strikes, so I can see where this might have come from.
That said, so long as both teams received the same ‘strike zone’, I don’t see this as a biggie. The lesson, though, is to clarify this early so that our house rule is properly applied.
As for calling safe while signaling out, I’ve done that! This happens either when one gets a brain fart or when one anticipates what the call will be rather than just wait and observe the play. The solution to the latter is to slow down! Let the ball turn you into the play, get set, see the play, review it, then make the call.
As for the former, I had a doozey at the Women’s Pronvincials in Lethbridge last month. It was quite amusing, and if I get around to it, I’ll describe it in a separate thread for everyone's entertainment.
In all, I hope that people enjoyed the tournament and found the umpiring to be generally good. Other than the issue regarding pitches hitting the plate, I haven’t heard much in the way of complaints or concerns.
I will mention that I heard at least two of the umpires describe the foul tip rule by saying that it has to go above the batter’s head to be an out. As discussed in the other thread, that isn’t correct, but I do expect that it will take a LONG time to correct this misunderstanding of the rule.
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
August 24, 2010
9:31:39 AM
Entry #: 3558400
| Sorry, storm, I didn't notice your post until now.
It sounds to me that it was actually a 'blocked' ball, which by rule is a dead ball. Did the umpire say 'out of play'? Or just 'dead ball'?
The result of a blocked ball COULD be the same as a ball that goes out of play depending on the circumstances. If the ball was blocked by a member of the DEFENSIVE team, then yes, I would definitely award bases. But if the ball was blocked by a member of the OFFENSIVE team (as in your situation), I would award no bases.
The only exception I could see is if, in the umpire's judgement, it would have gone out of play had the offensive player not touched the ball. Even then, I personally would not have awarded bases because that seems to be rewarding the offense for their mistake.
Hope this helps.
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| Lyndon (McKernan Baptist)
August 27, 2010
2:13:43 PM
Entry #: 3560917
| We had a play concerning an illegal pitch that I'm curious about. The pitch was below the 6 foot minimum and so the umpire called out "illegal pitch", but then the batter swung and hit the ball to our pitcher, who then threw to first for the out. The umpire ruled that the ball was dead once he called illegal pitch and so there was no play.
This is different from my interpretation of the league rules so I would be interested to hear others' thoughts.
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
August 31, 2010
10:00:57 AM
Entry #: 3563096
| Lyndon,
Based on the play as you described, the ball should have been live and in play, and the out should stand.
An "illegal pitch" is a DELAYED dead ball (not an immediate dead ball). The reason for this is that we don't want to penalize the non-offending team (i.e. the batter) for something the other team did what happens if the batter likes the low pitches and hits it over the fence? To rule an immediate dead ball could be penalizing the wrong team.
Therefore, we call "illegal pitch", show the delayed dead ball signal (left arm extended horizontally), and wait for the pitch to be completed. If the illegally pithced ball is NOT swung at, then we enforce the penalty for an illegal pitch, which is a ball added to the batter's count. But if the illegally pitched ball IS swung at, then the pitch becomes legal, and we take the result of the play (an out in your situation).
Contrast this to a "no pitch", which would for example be ruled when the pitcher pitches while the umpire is holding his/her hand up indicating not to pitch. This does result in an immediate dead ball, and it doesn't matter whether or not the batter swings. It also doesn't count as either a ball or a strike. It literally is "no pitch".
It seems to me that the umpire in this situation may have conflated the rulings for illegal pitch and no pitch. As a carded umpire, that doesn't look good on us and is (or should be) a very basic thing to get right. It also seems to me that this could have been protested.
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