View Message Board Guidelines
 |
Author |
TOPIC: Force play on over-run base |
|
| Allan
July 28, 2011
9:26:52 PM
Entry #: 3772172
| I want to know when bases are loaded, runner on base 2 over runs 3rd before the ball is caught by the 3rd baseman, is it still a force out or must the 3rd base tag the runner?
Allan
|
|
|
August 1, 2011
5:02:19 AM
Entry #: 3773464
| that is a good question . i used to ump ball about 7 years ago so i will offer my opinion ( i will not gurantee that it is correct ).
loaded bases
if the runner from second over ran third base ( i.e did not touch third base ) and then the ball arrived at third - i would say it would still be a force out. This is because i believe the baserunner from second needs to touch third base before he/she is called safe like any other play when running to a base. you need to touch the base before you advance to the next base , if u do not touch any base , you need to go back to that base before you are tagged or forced out.
|
|
| Dennis
August 2, 2011
12:10:18 PM
Entry #: 3774463
| Yes, this is a good question, and yes, you do need to touch each base. BUT missing a base is explicitly defined as an appeal play in the rulebook. My apologies, but I can’t avoid a long-winded explanation of this one.
An appeal play is one in which the umpire cannot make a ruling until the defense makes a clear, unambiguous appeal of the infraction. The implication of this is that a baserunner that has passed a base but failed to touch it is considered to have safely reached that base unless and until properly appealed by the defense.
This means that in the original situation with bases loaded, if the runner from second (R2) passes but misses third base and then the third baseperson (F5) receives the ball while contacting the base, the umpire is to rule ‘safe’ because the runner beat the ball. The defense must now appeal the missed base properly in order to get the out. If the missed base is still a forced base at the time the appeal is made, then the out will be considered a force out for purposes of determining whether or not other runs score.
The proper way to make this appeal depends on the situation. If the runner is in the vicinity of the base and trying to get back to the base, the fielder must tag the runner with the ball and verbally state to the umpire that the runner missed the base. If the runner is not trying to get back to the base, then the fielder can tag the base and make the same verbal declaration. These two methods are called live-ball appeals.
After the play is over (i.e. time is called), if the runner does not fix their baserunning error, the defense may make a dead-ball appeal by simply stating to the umpire that a particular runner missed a particular base (it has to be explicit), and the umpire then rules on the appeal. This can be done by any fielder or even a coach, but it must be done from the infield (not the outfield or the dugout). If there are less than three outs, the defense has until the next pitch to make this appeal. If there are three outs already, then this appeal must be done before all fielders have left fair territory (on their way to the dugout to get ready to bat). If the game is apparently over, they have until the umpire(s) leave the field to make the appeal. Note that it is perfectly legitimate to make such appeals after the third out or after the game is apparently over for the purpose of negating runs (which may actually make the game continue, hence why I said “apparently over”).
The above is how I would handle this situation if working a game as an independent umpire, and it is how I would expect our tournament umpires to handle it. But for our regular season, we umpire ourselves, so I think this raises questions about whether the ‘official’ way to handle such a missed-base situation is the appropriate way to handle it during our season.
I have heard that in American highschool fast-pitch, they used to have what was called the “accidental appeal”, but they got rid of that some years ago to be more like other rules bodies. In the accidental appeal, it is not necessary for the fielder to be clear and unambiguous in making an appeal. It’s not even necessary for the fielder to be aware that they are making an appeal! Here are some examples of the accidental appeal:
1) The batter hits a grounder to the shortstop, who fields the ball and throws to first base (1B). The throw is in time, but the first baseperson (F3) drops the ball. The batter-runner (BR) then overruns but misses 1B, after which F3 picks up the ball while still in contact with the base. Under current rules, this is not (yet) an appeal, but with the accidental-appeal rule, the umpire would accept this as an appeal and immediately rule the runner out.
2) With a runner (R1) on first base, the batter hits a grounder to right field. The batter-runner advances to first base and R1 advances to third base but misses second base on the way. The outfield relays the ball to the second baseperson (F4) who is standing near (but not on) second base. F4 then turns and steps to throw the ball to the pitcher, and this step lands on second base before the ball leaves F4’s hand. Under current rules, this is not an appeal, but with the accidental-appeal rule, again the umpire would accept this as an appeal and immediately rule the runner out.
3) Going back to the original post, with the accidental appeal, the runner from second would be called out. But without that rule, no, the runner is considered to have safely reached third base until/unless the defense properly appeals the missed base before the runner fixes his/her baserunning error by returning to the base.
|
|
|
August 4, 2011
11:40:06 PM
Entry #: 3776015
| nice post .. i learned something .
|
|
