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TOPIC: Outside Umpires |
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July 3, 2005
4:35:47 PM
Entry #: 927655
| I would like to know what the general view is towards having outside umpires come ump the games?
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| Rudy Welz
July 3, 2005
11:18:59 PM
Entry #: 927880
| If by "outside" umpires you mean official softball umpires, then I don't see a problem.
However since our rule is that teams umpire themselves, I'd suggest that both teams should agree to bringing in an offical umpire.
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
July 27, 2005
1:57:03 PM
Entry #: 964271
| Do you mean bringing in certified umpires for all regular-season games?
We already do hire such umpires for the tournament, and it certainly would be nice to have them throughout the season. But this would result in higher league fees to recover the cost.
This is something that could be brought up at the annual meeting (in September, I think).
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July 28, 2005
10:42:19 AM
Entry #: 965769
| Out side umps only cost $25 per game; total. It ends up being about a dollar a game per player depending of how many people your team has and if the other team is willing to pay half (most are),if not then it costs $2 each. Our team brings in an outside ump and it has been good. There is never any second guessing by either team as to what calls are made. It keeps the game fun.
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
July 29, 2005
9:55:59 AM
Entry #: 967554
| Yes, you've got the right price--$25 is the current going rate for singleton games by the Edmonton and District Softball Umpires' Association (which is affiliated with Softball Canada).
But personally, I would prefer that we do this on a league-wide basis rather than game by game or team by team. For a 14-game season, this would mean an extra $175 per team.
Members of EDSUA would be breaching their code of ethics if they accept an umpiring assignment contracted outside of the association, so that is one reason for advocating the league-wide approach.
Personally, I think hired umpires are a good thing, and if we were to do this, then I would also suggest reviewing our league-specific rules with the intent of eliminating ones that were designed to simplify the judgement of the umpires. In other words, we should be using the official rules as much as is feasible (the leading-off rule is a good example). This would simplify the umpire's job AND help teach people the game.
In any case, these are all things worthy to be discussed at the annual meeting.
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| Bret - CCA Cubs
July 30, 2005
10:15:43 PM
Entry #: 969324
| Disagreement here...
I don't believe outside umpires are warranted in our league. The cost per game is quite reasonable but when multiplied throughout the entire season, I don't see the benefits outweighing the costs.
If you are feeling they are necessary for a particular game (or your whole season for that matter) then I have no complaint with anyone who wants to hire them on. I can't see any team having a problem with an umpire being at a game or two during the year.
However in my experience over the past 4 years we have had extremely few instances where I have felt undue bias from another teams "Ump"ing has crept in enough to spoil any of our games.
The overwhelming majority of players go out of their way to call the game fair. Most of us realize the league is all about having fun and don't take things too serious or personal when a call is missed and an error made...
Errors are part of the game (you can tell that if you've ever watched our team field!) and errors will be made when umping as well...but you will soon see in the tournament the professional umpires are definetly not exempt!
Save your $175 and go buy $6 orange cones from Canadian tire and put them along the outfield foul-line, it takes the guess work out of the borderline foul ball calls (and these seem to be the only ones that can really ruin a game) and makes them non-controversial - everyone on both sides can see where the ball lands...and as far as the rest of the close calls go...always remember a tie goes to the runner!
Take it easy and see you in the tourney with the umps! later Bret
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
August 2, 2005
11:05:19 AM
Entry #: 972954
| While I think outside umps would be worthwhile, I can also see that others may not agree that the benefit outweighs the cost. But one major benefit of outside umpires is that opposing teams get mad at the umpire rather than the other team when there is a disagreement.
While borderline foul calls can ruin a game, I find the biggest arguments occur over rules applications. . .especially when one team knows the rule in question, and the other doesn't but thinks it does. So in addition to buying the pilons, buy a rulebook and have someone read it! And if you're going to argue a ruling, please make sure you know the rule!
In any case, I agree that $175 extra in league fees may not be affordable by all teams, which is why I wanted to state that figure up front.
As for individual teams hiring umpires for individual games, the only concern that I have is over the process of how this is done. Recall that EDSUA has a code of ethics that prevents their umpires from accepting paid games that aren't contracted through their organization. And since EDSUA supplies our tournament umpires, we need to maintain a good relationship with them. Therefore, please do not approach such umpires directly (you can try going through EDSUA, but they're short on umpires for week-day games already).
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August 4, 2005
10:54:32 AM
Entry #: 977038
| I agree with Bret. Outside umps are not necessary and the cost for some teams could be too much. If a team wants an ump for one game,a few games or the season it should be their choice not a league rule where you must to pay. Games can be umped well with or without 'official' umps. In any case,in comment to what was said about teams getting mad at the 'official' ump instead of the other team,this is a Christian league and we all need to behave accordingly. We shouldn't be getting mad at anyone and we certainly shouldn't be voicing it if that's how we feel. This league is for fun even if the other team makes a bad call.
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
August 4, 2005
3:16:32 PM
Entry #: 977698
| I agree that the cost for hiring umpires for the entire league may well be unaffordable for some teams--that's why a decision to go this route must be a league decision (it cannot be made by just a few teams).
As for getting mad at 'official' umps, guess what? We're all human! To say that we shouldn't get mad because we're Christian is to say that we shouldn't be human. Hopefully, how we handle ourselves will be different, but let's not deny that Christians are no less fallible than non-Christians. What matters is how you handle yourself when you are upset.
The regular season is not much of a problem. Personally, I tend to be most argumentative when faced by someone that argues out of ignorance (hence my suggestion that people learn the rules).
But the level of competitiveness inherent in anything called a 'tournament' did make for a problem. I remember well the time when we didn't have certified umpires in our tournaments, and later when we only had them for the higher divisions. Let me tell you this--it is much better to be upset at a neutral third party than the other team when you think a bad call was made. I have witnessed this on our team, and I have witnessed it on our opponents too.
Yes, we shouldn't get upset in such cases. But we are human. We do get upset. And this is a red herring.
Getting back to the issue at hand, I summarize it as follows:
1. Should we, as a league, have third-party umpires? This comes down to a cost/benefit analysis. . .are the benefits worth the added costs?
2. If not, should teams be able to bring in umpires on their own? Personally, I see no reason why not except for the issue of contracting certified umpires without going through their organizing body (which is probably not possible without the league being involved).
Personally, I suspect that the league would decide not to hire umpires for all games. In that case, please, please, please do not try to privately hire umpires that are certified with EDSUA because of potential ramifications that may entail (such as EDSUA refusing to ump our tournaments).
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| Dennis (Hosanna)
August 4, 2005
3:21:24 PM
Entry #: 977714
| Oops, there was an ambiguously worded sentence in my last post:
"Personally, I see no reason why not except for the issue of contracting certified umpires without going through their organizing body (which is probably not possible without the league being involved)."
What I mean is that I don't think it's possible for individual teams to contract EDSUA umpires through the official channels. Rather, it would require league involvement to do that. In other words, individual teams should NOT be contacting EDSUA umpires directly!
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