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TOPIC: Star story |
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| gwac
September 4, 2007
10:18:22 AM
Entry #: 2352889
| Ottawa Lynx AAA team moving, no AAA teams left in canada and more interest in soccer these days. Baseball diamonds being replace with soccer fields.
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| gwac
September 6, 2007
9:35:24 AM
Entry #: 2356352
| Coba and Baseball Ontario have a resonsibility to get kids in and to stay in baseball.
Problems that need to be addressed, these organizations should not own the players. Kids should be able to move. The schedules need to be fixed, AAA teams should be playing AAA teams.
Tell me how much fun kids are having by getting killed each game. If there are only 4 AAA teams, let them play each other the whole season.
Finally Baseball Ontario needs to fix the the team rankings so AAA and AA teams do not play tourneys below their true rankings, especially the provincials.
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| changeup
September 6, 2007
11:09:10 AM
Entry #: 2356530
| I agree with you. COBA and Baseball Ontario have an obligation... when was the last time these 2 orgs actually promoted baseball ?
The other problem is coaching. If this were hockey many coaches (at least in coba) would be kicked out after 1 year. This is from my personal experieces whith numerous teams/ages/levels and the experience of others that I know at different age levels.
Then there is the stupid residency rule.
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| water101
September 7, 2007
11:55:46 AM
Entry #: 2358491
| The residency rule is wrong. Players should play where they live. Enough of these teams building super powers. The OBA needs to stop super power teams from forming and winning provincials and elimination tournaments. They are forcing other cities to follow suite and I think soon you will have AAA, AA and elite teams in OBA.
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| changeup
September 7, 2007
2:48:13 PM
Entry #: 2358851
| water101
Players must play in the city where they reside - THAT IS WRONG. I believe you should be able to play where you want. Players end up getting around the rule anyway by using fake addresses or a relatives address.
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| water101
September 7, 2007
3:05:04 PM
Entry #: 2358881
| The fake addresses should be clamped down on to. But allowing anyone to play anywhere they want creates super team, and soon way too many levels in baseball. Baseball will end up like hockey where there are a few good teams in Toronto that everyone goes to and that is it. Play the sport for what it should be and that is a sport. If you want to win at all cost play elite baseball. There are enough elite programs now at every age so if your willing to pay the big bucks and want freedom go to elite programs and allow kids who want to play competative baseball to play with equality through out the province.
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| 643
September 7, 2007
3:38:44 PM
Entry #: 2358972
| In principal, I agree with the play where you live philosophy however; there is always the exception. What if your child is too young for elite ball and the coach for the AAA team in your area has no coaching skills and is just a dad thrown to the wolves? What if the coach just doesn't like your child or is verbally abusive. You should have the right to go to another org. I think a good comprimise would be to put a limit on imports. Perhaps only 2 or 3 per team. As it stands now, some teams (such as the Mississauge teams) do not allow any imports while other cities have no limit. This is what creates the super teams. We need a level playing field.
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| changeup
September 8, 2007
12:01:57 AM
Entry #: 2359722
| water101 - you are miss-informed
The super team thing is a cop out. Super teams are created because the good players want to go to good teams. A team that is well coached and managed. So how many teams do you know that are well coached and managed ?
The residency rule is self serving. You see the ill-managed local orgs would not exist if it were not for the residency rules
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| gwac
September 9, 2007
9:18:23 PM
Entry #: 2361913
| If you do not think baseball is in trouble, tryouts for numerous teams in coba was 15 or less
and much less in a lot of cases. There is a problem and those in power need to wake up and find answers.
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| changeup
September 9, 2007
10:17:13 PM
Entry #: 2362006
| gwac, who are u replying to ?
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| gwac
September 10, 2007
8:31:07 AM
Entry #: 2362370
| Nobody, just a statement.
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| changeup
September 10, 2007
10:07:06 AM
Entry #: 2362522
| I agree with you - coba baseball is in big trouble. I now in my org they will have problems fielding 2 teams at some age levels.
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| water101
September 10, 2007
11:55:09 AM
Entry #: 2362759
| Changeup
Super team is not a excuse, it is becoming a reality. Coaches are out there telling good players to come and play for them and they will not sit and we'll win everything and promiss them how much attention they will get. It is true that good teams will get more attention, but that is what the Elite programs are set up for.
A good coach will play there players and allow everyone to develope not just the top players. I can't tell you how many times we have played teams and there are usually about 3 players who never see any time maybe a pitch run and that is it. The reason is the coach wants to wim to much so they can continue to recurit. Is this really what we want rep minor baseball to be?
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| changeup
September 11, 2007
1:19:34 PM
Entry #: 2364890
| water101,
I'm not sure what your point is.
here's mine:
1. there not many good coaches in oba - sitting a kid does not make you a bad coach since did you ever think the kid maybe sitting for a reason ? He could be not good enough - if a coach wants to win then why sit the good players (?)
One problem is that many coaches in oba are simply not qualified. NCCP levels are pretty meaningless.
2. The local orgs have no interest in improving things because in many cases the people on the board are head coaches themselves - so no incentive for them to improve the league since their kid is taken care of - it's called a conflict of interest.
3. elite teams ..super teams is not the problem.
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| striker
September 16, 2007
12:40:51 AM
Entry #: 2372095
| I actually have seen a lot of good things happening in baseball. I think the level of competition in COBA has been increasing each year amongst the AAA teams at least. Playing AA vs AAA is of course a problem that needs to be fixed. But aside from that there is some good coaching going on and good baseball. I've seen and heard of teams going to US and competing really well.
Let's face it we do live in a hockey crazed Country and the hockey schedule eat's into baseball season more and more as those teams fight to improve. As kids get older they tend to want to play baseball but are not able to because of hockey. Not much can be done about that. I'm just glad my son got into baseball at a younger age. Fact is there is more opportunity to go places with baseball than in hockey just because there is less interest.
As for issue of residency - Not every community has rep teams so those players can go where they want. Why not leave it open to everyone. It's a free country, why do we need to draw border lines?
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| 643
September 17, 2007
4:31:12 PM
Entry #: 2374489
| The reason border lines should be drawn is that not all cities allow imports. It has nothing to do with the orgs. For example, the city of Mississauga will not allow any imports to play on city diamonds. I believe Oakville is very strict with imports as well. By allowing unlimited imports it creates an unfair imbalance. Perhaps allowing only 2 or 3 per team would be a comprimise.
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| water101
September 17, 2007
7:30:43 PM
Entry #: 2374826
| Oakville is very tough,probably the best at not allowing imports, they lose more players then they allow in. Mississauga say's they don't allow imports and they are pretty good at but most Mississauga AAA teams have imports. The Mississauga Majors at the peewee level this year had a couple and have now added more to compete with Georgetown who had only 5 Georgetown players on there team and are looking to get more imports. Brampton will not allow imports or so they say, but when it fits a need and you know the right people they allow them as well. Nobady is perfect and that brings us to the main problem facing COBA and OBA baseball today.
Too many of the people in charge are just in charge is they can control what is best for them. Most people in charge in the rep system are coaches and do what will best suit there needs or needs of there buddies. Until this can be stopped and the right people are in place baseball will continue to go down. I'm not saying other sports are better but baseball is not the strongest to begin with and it continues to get weaker.
I have been around minor baseball for 12 years now and the rep system for 9 and it is going down more and more each year. I don't see things getting any better for the next few years and there will have to be some major corrections at the top if baseball is to once again regain it's better days.
If the people in charge would not be allowed to coach or have a son/daughter on a rep team that would get things started in the right direction as people would be making choices for the right reason the betterment of the game and not self gain.
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| changeup
September 17, 2007
11:17:00 PM
Entry #: 2375193
| 643,
You have a residency rule because cities do not allow imports ? that does not make any sense.
THE RESIDENCY RULE EXITS SO THAT LOCAL ORGS CAN KEEP THEIR TALENT THAT WOULD OTHERWISE GO TO OTHER WELL RUN TEAMS. Local orgs currently do not have to sell their league because the players cannot leave due to the stupid rule. Look at BMBI. I know some players in this league and they tell me the league is falling apart because it is not well run (coaching, facilities..etc). I know many playing in Mississauga that were originally from Brampton.
Where did you get that Mississauga does not allow imports? In fact, Tigers and Majors (at least at some ages) have many imports - I know the imports personally.
Water101,
You are right on the money with the controlling coaches/board memebers – it’s disgusting.
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| water101
September 18, 2007
10:05:22 AM
Entry #: 2375591
| BMBI is falling apart, quicker the last 3 years or so. The rep system in BMBI is in bad shape with a very bleak outlook. Yes many many players from Brampton leave and go to Mississauga.
One of the problems facing Baseball is the parents. They fail to realize that everyone involved for the most part are volunteers and they make their lives a living hell. I often wonder why parents would rather believe that a coach is not player their son to punish them instead of the real reason that there are more talented players on the team. Not all parents are bad nor good, just like not all coaches are good and not all are bad. I do believe that you lose some good coaches because of bad parents and lose some good players because of bad coaches.
Leagues need to step up and be run proper so that they can handle the issues that arise. I know in Brampton for instance over the last 3 years whenever a problem was brought up to the person in charge of rep the answer was always the same, "I don't have time for this". A perfect example of someone doing what they are doing for their own sake as opposited to the betterment of baseball.
I would challange all the cities out there to get good people to run their leagues. If it cost $20-$30 more to play per sperson for the season to pay people to run the league maybe we shoudl look at it.
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| gwac
September 18, 2007
11:36:09 AM
Entry #: 2375786
| Do not fool yourself. Oakville has many imports.
They just turn a blind eye to it, like everyone else.
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| water101
September 18, 2007
11:48:43 AM
Entry #: 2375814
| I have never heard about imports in Oakville, doesn't mean they don't have them. I know Burlington does, Mississauga does, Georgetown does, Brampton has very very few and most are on one team.
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| 643
September 18, 2007
4:29:20 PM
Entry #: 2376443
| I guess I was misinformed. I was told by a coach that they tried to get an import and they were told by their assoc (in Miss) that they could not have any rostered players that do not have a Mississauga address. Are these so called imports using a fake address or was I sold a bill of goods?
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| changeup
September 18, 2007
7:55:08 PM
Entry #: 2376785
| 643,
could be that this is inforced more at the younger ages - pewwee and below or it could be that they use fake address - I have seen both.
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| water101
September 18, 2007
7:58:06 PM
Entry #: 2376791
| Fake address and pretending not to know are both used a lot. It is starting to creep in more and more and at younger ages. I expect you will see it even at Major Mosquito in a year or so if not sooner.
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| striker
September 18, 2007
10:59:48 PM
Entry #: 2377092
| The residency rule in Mississauga comes from the city. Fact is if you are not a taxpayer in Mississauga your children are not permitted to play for a Mississauga team. Does anyone actually police this - I highly doubt they do. I also know for a fact that an individual can appeal to city council and request special permission to play in Mississauga. In some cases they will grant. But I would guess there are a good number of players who play in Mississauga without this permission. Let's face it the city doesn't go looking for kids playing baseball, they leave it up to the organizations.
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| bballmom
September 29, 2007
6:18:39 AM
Entry #: 2393595
| I would be curious to actually see this City of Mississauga Policy. In the past, in order to be associated as an organization with the City, you did have to maintain a certain percentage for residency. This ranged anywhere from 80% - 85%. So why does baseball have a different rule by the city.
Local Rep Soccer teams can have tons of imports as long as a min. of 9 players are residents. This is in all cities, not just Mississauga.
Is it possible that its simply the local Organizations that have decided this rule but make claims that it is the City? Why does the city allow imports to play on their Soccer fields but not on their diamonds?
When you play rep, regardless of the sport, this residency is quite odd. You should be entitled to play where you want and allow organizations to build solid teams. Hats off to Georgetown because they did what any other organizational rep sport would do...........they built a solid core team and won. The only shame........the good ball players left from Georgetown can't go anywhere because of everyone's residency rule........so who loses?
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| curveball
October 1, 2007
2:22:37 PM
Entry #: 2396651
| So let me get this right…..some authors of the above postings are against the residency rule but then these very same authors under “OBA Rep AA - why soooo many games with AAA” topic are do not agree with allowing AA teams playing against AAA teams in their league loop because these teams feel they are going to lose before they hit the diamond.
If this is true (because this is how I read it) what exactly do you think would happen if residency rules did not exist? If you open the borders, all the elite (parents and) players would migrate to what they perceive to be the better teams/organizations, hence you will one or two elite teams in a league.
Does this not mean the non-elite teams become batting and fielding practice for these teams? The exact same complaint about AA teams playing AAA teams on a regular basis.
I think MSBA web site http://www.msbabaseball.ca/releases.htm explains it nicely why the residency rules exist, “Any rep or competitive sport is only as good as the opportunity it offers for competitive play.”
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| gwac
October 1, 2007
3:42:12 PM
Entry #: 2396834
| MSBA teams play other Miss teams. Coba teams play other cities. Mississauga coba teams are putting themselves at a disadvantage when they play teams that are a mixture of kids from more than one city including kids from Mississauga.
So make all coba teams play under the same rules, whatever those rules are.
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| gwac
October 1, 2007
7:40:35 PM
Entry #: 2397292
| bbmom
IMHO it is the local associations who have chosen as a group not to allow imports. City of Miss
would have no problem allowing 2 or 3 imports. Do not believe anyone who tells you otherwise.
Furthermore I think the other associations are doing this to stop one association in particular from getting stronger.
It is not about anything other than politics.
GTHL gets prime time city ice with agreement to limit imports. There is no reason why the city would stop baseball from a few imports.
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| changeup
October 1, 2007
9:33:47 PM
Entry #: 2397497
| I'll say it again. The residency rule is there to protect the weak(poorly run) and bad orginizations. Without it players would just leave and the league would have to fold meaning all the parents on the executive board (who also coach their kids) would lose their jobs.
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| curveball
October 2, 2007
10:20:25 AM
Entry #: 2397993
| Suppose the residency rule is disposed of and these bad organizations do fold, what happens to those players not selected in other cities? Do they not deserve an opportunity to play baseball?
Are you suggesting we get rid of a policy that protects a structure as whole for a handful of players/parents who want to play elsewhere?
The policy exists to maintain equality and opportunity for all to play competitive baseball. It creates balance distribution of quality players, and therefore fair competition amongst teams and associations.
And I find it hard to believe that an executive board members would create this policy only to protect their volunteer positions where they contribute numerous hours free of charge over and above their regular job hours.
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| bballmom
October 9, 2007
1:39:57 PM
Entry #: 2409590
| Hi All,
I agree there has to be a level of structure and control but allowing some movement would not do anyone any harm. As for creating "elite teams" and this being compared to AA vs AAA........I find it amazing that AAA groups have a problem with possibilities of "elite" teams beating them badly on the field but yet, no one can find a solution to stop this from happening to AA.
Please do not use that comparison unless you have personally experienced watching young boys lose the love for this game. Maybe these AA players aren't good enough for their AAA associations but maybe they would be in another city. So really........Residency is just protecting the AAA boys.
I myself would love to have some imports on a AA side so we could atleast add some strength or provide some opportunity for these boys to tryout in another city and still maintain some comp. ball.
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| changeup
October 9, 2007
9:01:46 PM
Entry #: 2410479
| ..and you want to tryout for another AA team in a different city and you have no problem with those kids being cut for your kid to make it ?...come on!
ever think that if your kid cannot make AAA then maybe he's just not good enough ? ever think of that ?
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| bballmom
October 10, 2007
1:21:39 PM
Entry #: 2411598
| Not every child has the talent for AAA and shame on you if you think it makes them less of a player. I don't have an issue with my son not playing AAA, that is just an extra letter added to AA and I prefer to develop his love for the game and desire to be the best he can be at this game.
This is a forum of thoughts and ideas.......don't turn this into anything more than that. Funny.....earlier residency topics have you concerned because you felt trapped by the rule....now your a fan? Everyone in these forums can type whatever thoughts they carry towards topics and it is o.k. to discuss to those thoughts......but don't get personal or make comments about anyone's child.
If it helps changeup......be proud of whatever your son achieves in life and do not make a letter your deciding factor on his childhood
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| changeup
October 10, 2007
2:19:36 PM
Entry #: 2411740
| bballmom,
1. There is nothing personal about my post.
2. no where did I say that I am for the residency rule.
3. AAA is more than an extra A. If it was'nt than why did you say you would like to tryout for AAA in a different city ?
4. Sometimes reality is just hard to swallow.
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| bballmom
October 13, 2007
7:09:48 AM
Entry #: 2416222
| changeup,
Trying out in a different city was a comment to play comp. ball only. I would prefer to stay at AA but be able to bring in imports to add strength and be able to compete against AAA fairly if we are to remain in the same loop.
No reality needed to swallow.....not everyone is capable of playing true AAA ball and that's O.K because as long as you work hard, play hard and give it 120%, you have succeeded.....regardless of the number of letters assigned to your teams registration form.
Chow!
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| NO-REL-REQ
February 10, 2008
2:48:45 PM
Entry #: 2592048
| When it comes to residency rules Mississauga is the biggest joke of all. I will continue this in another posting.
I will first say that releases should be done a way with.
Any kid playing on a team outside of the town or city has followed all the rules by getting a release when going to another team. I wish everyone would just shut up about it.
The only time this becomes an issue is when you get lousy organizations and coaches not giving releases. Then they force parents to take drastic measures like lying about their residency. Shame on those organziations. I tip my hat to parents willing to do what is right for their kids no matter how it impacts the organziation. If a kid leaving does impact an organziation it goes to show there must be some serious issues with that organization.
NO-REL-REQ
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| NO-REL-REQ
February 10, 2008
5:14:12 PM
Entry #: 2592243
| Mississauga is a major source of conflict when it comes to non resident issues and releases. Personally I wish Miss would create their own division and go and stew in it.
I spoke to the town of Mississauga directly and they had told me that the reason this rule exists is because the 3 major legaues in Miss. (Miss North, SouthWest, Majors) all agreed to implement it in the first place to try and protect their empires. The city informated me that the 3 organizations cannot agree on removing the non-resident issue so they will keep in tact until such time baseball in Missisauga gets their act together.
From an OBA perspective any kid moving from one organzation to another regardless of town needs to get a release. Therefore one kid moving from one Miss league to another Miss League such as moving from Miss North to Miss Majors by OBA standards requires a release. This is no different from a non-resident kid goiong for from Burlington to Oakville. What is funny about this is that Miss baseball execs think a Miss kid moving from one Miss League to another is ok but God forbid if a boy from Oakville moves to Miss. or another baseball organziation. Talk about your ignorant double standard.
Miss has anywhere from 600K and above population to draw from. How about for example Burlington, Oakville, Milton and Georgetown pool together to make one league. That should put it around 400K in population. And those leagues could do what Miss does. No kid from any leagues outside of this group is allowed to play for these teams.
As you can see it is all a big complicated mess. Let the kids play whereever the parents feel best. I have heard all kinds of things like tax issues and kids being cut and organziations falling apart. These are all scare tactics by those old guys trying to keep their empires. We all live in Ontario. We all live in Canada. Who cares where the kids play. Who cares if a team becomes the strongest. If your kid wants to play ball let them. There are only so many kids interested in playing baseball in Canada. There is only an opportunity for one or two teams to dominate in any one league. Let them dominate. It will always happen no matter how many silly rules you try and put in. Parents will move if it makes sense for their kid. I do not think they are crazy for moving but I do think baseball organizations are crazy for making them move.
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